Do you Pray?

[Baz]

I likes some questions posted in the Holy Huddle, obviously addressing Christians, as I and others are not allowed to post in that forum, I would like to ask any site members of any belief the same thing;
1) Do you pray?
2) How do you pray?
3) How often to you pray?
4) What do you think is the result of your prayers?




Personally 1/ I do pray. 2/ I pray in different ways at different times, the most common being conscious thought, but in a mish-mash of points that you could not make into a structured sentence. Usually asking for some form of understanding. 3/ no fixed amount, when I feel like it, on average 3-6 times a week. 4/ I often think I see things differently as a result.

[Baz]

pmprcv

I think I see what you are saying about the need for a sincere belief that the sin in question should not be repeated.
This for me is part of the problem.
I think a lot of things I do are probably bad for me. I drink, sometimes defiantly too much, I am a bit of a glutton and I don’t think there is any problem with a lot of stuff about sex that can be viewed as sin by some.

I don’t know how to put it but to me there are big sins, like murder, but a lot of the stuff my uncle called sin was in my opinion just being human.
From the viewpoint of an outsider his religion put too much emphasis on clearing to board and starting again and not enough on the possibility of small improvements on an inevitably imperfect personality.

By the way my uncle died some time ago and as I see it has no reason to be anywhere other than where he wanted to be.

[pmprcv]

I think I see what you are saying about the need for a sincere belief that the sin in question should not be repeated.
This for me is part of the problem.
I think a lot of things I do are probably bad for me. I drink, sometimes defiantly too much, I am a bit of a glutton and I don’t think there is any problem with a lot of stuff about sex that can be viewed as sin by some.

I know what you mean. We are all human, and that is no reason to feel ashamed - either before men or before God. He knows you in your intimate and knows how good or bad-natured you are. I as well (and I'd say must of us) also commit sins that we cannot, or don't want to apologize for. I myself do this; I make the exam of conscience and find my sins, but then I either am not truly regretful for them or I know absolutely that I will repeat them again. Or both. So those are sins that I know I commited, I know I shouldn't have commited, and yet am not yet ready to ask for forgiveness for, because if I did it would make me a hypocrite. I smoke, and that is a sin; but while I regret it a bit (although not completely... if you smoke you know what I mean) I cannot yet make the purpose to quit. But I'm walking towards there - and prayer helps also in this regard of self-improvement.

I don’t know how to put it but to me there are big sins, like murder, but a lot of the stuff my uncle called sin was in my opinion just being human.
From the viewpoint of an outsider his religion put too much emphasis on clearing to board and starting again and not enough on the possibility of small improvements on an inevitably imperfect personality.

I think that it might be so for an outsider, but it isn't the truth for those with most experience. Catholicism does indeed have this huge emphasis on being born again or renewed, clearing the board and starting again. But it is also our mission to make the world, and ourselves, better. We are meant to walk towards Him, and that sometimes is made with huge steps like a wholeheart conversion from a life of sin, or small steps, like reducing how much I eat, being more patient towards those people I sympathize less, being more charitable to those who need. Walk the dog 3 times a day instead of 2. Remember that we should love each other, but also love ourselves - if God loves us with all our defects, then how can't we?

By the way my uncle died some time ago and as I see it has no reason to be anywhere other than where he wanted to be.

Sorry for that, but I'm glad that he found what he was looking for.

[Baz]

pmprcy

I probably consider god to be a lot less personal than given to be by many religious teachings, although as I said earlier I do pray, I don’t think of it as a sort of word for word conversation, more a way of trying to access bigger thoughts.(can’t think of any other way to word it? Perhaps share a thought.)
I do attend a chapel from time to time, but consider myself an outsider to most religions, it’s the personal god concept that eludes me, that’s probably why I find the way others view there interaction with god so interesting.



I did stop smoking about four years ago but I probably still have a long way to go to be saved.

[pmprcv]

I probably consider god to be a lot less personal than given to be by many religious teachings, although as I said earlier I do pray, I don’t think of it as a sort of word for word conversation, more a way of trying to access bigger thoughts.(can’t think of any other way to word it? Perhaps share a thought.)
I do attend a chapel from time to time, but consider myself an outsider to most religions, it’s the personal god concept that eludes me, that’s probably why I find the way others view there interaction with god so interesting.

First, again, wow. A non-theist who isn't a douche. Seriously, call me a bigot or a stereotyping a**hole or whatever, but I think that a non-believer who isn't a d*ck about it is rare these days. Maybe it's the internet.
Anyways, nice talk. If you have any questions or whatever or if you're interested in this topic PM me and I'll answer in what I can.

Keep on praying, peace

[otseng]

Seriously, call me a bigot or a stereotyping a**hole or whatever, but I think that a non-believer who isn't a d*ck about it is rare these days. Maybe it's the internet.

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[marketandchurch]

Personally, it does nothing for me spiritually, it's just a one-way conversation, and I'm not a person that faith in the unseen, and spirituality, comes natural to,

I only do it a few times a week, but on a non-spiritual note, it is very therapeutic when I do do it. I tend to consciously & subconsciously unload things that I'm not even honest with myself about, to this God who I don't "know" exists, which is very nice. You kind of just pour it all out on the table, and get a few things off your chest.

[Baz]

Personally, it does nothing for me spiritually, it's just a one-way conversation, and I'm not a person that faith in the unseen, and spirituality, comes natural to,

I only do it a few times a week, but on a non-spiritual note, it is very therapeutic when I do do it. I tend to consciously & subconsciously unload things that I'm not even honest with myself about, to this God who I don't "know" exists, which is very nice. You kind of just pour it all out on the table, and get a few things off your chest.

Praying to the unknown, works for me.
I would suppose that there is something close to praying that could be beneficial to complete atheists (probably not the ones that would describe humans as soulless).

Consciously recognizing that you are able to see beauty and bringing what is good to mind could be an excellent way to relax … I would say also a good prelude to meditation.

I personally believe that it’s also a pinhole of a gateway to something else, but nobody has to look if they don’t want to.




.

[marketandchurch]

Personally, it does nothing for me spiritually, it's just a one-way conversation, and I'm not a person that faith in the unseen, and spirituality, comes natural to,

I only do it a few times a week, but on a non-spiritual note, it is very therapeutic when I do do it. I tend to consciously & subconsciously unload things that I'm not even honest with myself about, to this God who I don't "know" exists, which is very nice. You kind of just pour it all out on the table, and get a few things off your chest.

Praying to the unknown, works for me.
I would suppose that there is something close to praying that could be beneficial to complete atheists (probably not the ones that would describe humans as soulless).

Consciously recognizing that you are able to see beauty and bringing what is good to mind could be an excellent way to relax … I would say also a good prelude to meditation.

I personally believe that it’s also a pinhole of a gateway to something else, but nobody has to look if they don’t want to.




.

Absolutely. I've been arguing for atheists to pray for the very fact that it instills gratitude in one's self, not to mention, the therapeutic affects of being "holy" and "personal" in thanking something, when done in a group setting. An atheist prayer at meal time, thanking farmers for their harvest, for the fact that it was a locally sourced, helping out the environment, you could pray for a farmers safety, you could then thank life for your health, thank chance for the people that surround you, and hope for luck that you may be able to enjoy another meal with them during this finite time that you happen to be alive. It let's people know you care about them, it's always nice to be the recipient of love, and being thanked another person for being in their life.

I've heard atheists rebut my point saying that their paying the farmers is their way of thanking them... and the assumption I take from that is that they don't think the human being needs to do daily things to make themselves grateful. As if the Human Being is already perfect in its nature, and doesn't need any higher levels of gratitude then the default levels that an already-perfect nature comes with.

You need gratitude like you need protein, vitamins, and minerals. You need gratitude to be a happy person. So much of your overall health is tied directly to your daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly levels of gratitude. It is a health boost that you give yourself. And prayer is a great device for enhancing that.

On a personal note, for a theist like myself, their's a lot of stuff that one can dig out of one's mind in a conversation with something that may not be there. It only works because I tell myself that there's someone silently on the other line, who is with me on this journey called life. And the things that I'm able to then explore is paramount... there' are truths I'll tell God that I don't even acknowledge to myself, things that I prefer not to confront consciously that somehow have a way of coming out when you feel that you trust another "ear" to hear you out, & deepens my trust in this entity I'm talking to in a very deep, and therapeutic way.

Could I just be delusional? Sure, but I think that's the point of prayer. We have a lot of close friends in our lives, but there are simply some things that you do not trust other people enough to be that vulnerable and open with. Therapy is good, but not everyone has access to a therapist. So a mechanism that enables you to divulge all of this information out is a very very healthy tool. It increases mental awareness, and increases feelings of trust, honesty, and gratitude. If you can do another social ritual that increases all of those things as well, go for it. What matters most is that you end up with those results, and you clear your conscious often.

[Iam]

Personally, it does nothing for me spiritually, it's just a one-way conversation, and I'm not a person that faith in the unseen, and spirituality, comes natural to,

I only do it a few times a week, but on a non-spiritual note, it is very therapeutic when I do do it. I tend to consciously & subconsciously unload things that I'm not even honest with myself about, to this God who I don't "know" exists, which is very nice. You kind of just pour it all out on the table, and get a few things off your chest.

Praying to the unknown, works for me.
I would suppose that there is something close to praying that could be beneficial to complete atheists (probably not the ones that would describe humans as soulless).

Consciously recognizing that you are able to see beauty and bringing what is good to mind could be an excellent way to relax … I would say also a good prelude to meditation.

I personally believe that it’s also a pinhole of a gateway to something else, but nobody has to look if they don’t want to.




.

Absolutely. I've been arguing for atheists to pray for the very fact that it instills gratitude in one's self, not to mention, the therapeutic affects of being "holy" and "personal" in thanking something, when done in a group setting. An atheist prayer at meal time, thanking farmers for their harvest, for the fact that it was a locally sourced, helping out the environment, you could pray for a farmers safety, you could then thank life for your health, thank chance for the people that surround you, and hope for luck that you may be able to enjoy another meal with them during this finite time that you happen to be alive. It let's people know you care about them, it's always nice to be the recipient of love, and being thanked another person for being in their life.

I've heard atheists rebut my point saying that their paying the farmers is their way of thanking them... and the assumption I take from that is that they don't think the human being needs to do daily things to make themselves grateful. As if the Human Being is already perfect in its nature, and doesn't need any higher levels of gratitude then the default levels that an already-perfect nature comes with.

You need gratitude like you need protein, vitamins, and minerals. You need gratitude to be a happy person. So much of your overall health is tied directly to your daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly levels of gratitude. It is a health boost that you give yourself. And prayer is a great device for enhancing that.

On a personal note, for a theist like myself, their's a lot of stuff that one can dig out of one's mind in a conversation with something that may not be there. It only works because I tell myself that there's someone silently on the other line, who is with me on this journey called life. And the things that I'm able to then explore is paramount... there' are truths I'll tell God that I don't even acknowledge to myself, things that I prefer not to confront consciously that somehow have a way of coming out when you feel that you trust another "ear" to hear you out, & deepens my trust in this entity I'm talking to in a very deep, and therapeutic way.

Could I just be delusional? Sure, but I think that's the point of prayer. We have a lot of close friends in our lives, but there are simply some things that you do not trust other people enough to be that vulnerable and open with. Therapy is good, but not everyone has access to a therapist. So a mechanism that enables you to divulge all of this information out is a very very healthy tool. It increases mental awareness, and increases feelings of trust, honesty, and gratitude. If you can do another social ritual that increases all of those things as well, go for it. What matters most is that you end up with those results, and you clear your conscious often.

My mother prayed every day of her life and quite often in the 8yrs she lived with us after my dad died. Mostly she prayed to join him, she eventually did after a massive stroke and 4days in a hospital bed with her tiny 93 yr old body being unclothed by the hand she had no control over and never knowing that her six kids were all around her. If that is the answer to her very, very sincere prayers then whoever she prayed to was just taking the piss. I'd given up on her god long before this happened, so don't come from there. Her mantra was "the good lord put us together, he should take us together". Tell me about faith in a god, I dare ya.

[marketandchurch]

Personally, it does nothing for me spiritually, it's just a one-way conversation, and I'm not a person that faith in the unseen, and spirituality, comes natural to,

I only do it a few times a week, but on a non-spiritual note, it is very therapeutic when I do do it. I tend to consciously & subconsciously unload things that I'm not even honest with myself about, to this God who I don't "know" exists, which is very nice. You kind of just pour it all out on the table, and get a few things off your chest.

Praying to the unknown, works for me.
I would suppose that there is something close to praying that could be beneficial to complete atheists (probably not the ones that would describe humans as soulless).

Consciously recognizing that you are able to see beauty and bringing what is good to mind could be an excellent way to relax … I would say also a good prelude to meditation.

I personally believe that it’s also a pinhole of a gateway to something else, but nobody has to look if they don’t want to.




.

Absolutely. I've been arguing for atheists to pray for the very fact that it instills gratitude in one's self, not to mention, the therapeutic affects of being "holy" and "personal" in thanking something, when done in a group setting. An atheist prayer at meal time, thanking farmers for their harvest, for the fact that it was a locally sourced, helping out the environment, you could pray for a farmers safety, you could then thank life for your health, thank chance for the people that surround you, and hope for luck that you may be able to enjoy another meal with them during this finite time that you happen to be alive. It let's people know you care about them, it's always nice to be the recipient of love, and being thanked another person for being in their life.

I've heard atheists rebut my point saying that their paying the farmers is their way of thanking them... and the assumption I take from that is that they don't think the human being needs to do daily things to make themselves grateful. As if the Human Being is already perfect in its nature, and doesn't need any higher levels of gratitude then the default levels that an already-perfect nature comes with.

You need gratitude like you need protein, vitamins, and minerals. You need gratitude to be a happy person. So much of your overall health is tied directly to your daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly levels of gratitude. It is a health boost that you give yourself. And prayer is a great device for enhancing that.

On a personal note, for a theist like myself, their's a lot of stuff that one can dig out of one's mind in a conversation with something that may not be there. It only works because I tell myself that there's someone silently on the other line, who is with me on this journey called life. And the things that I'm able to then explore is paramount... there' are truths I'll tell God that I don't even acknowledge to myself, things that I prefer not to confront consciously that somehow have a way of coming out when you feel that you trust another "ear" to hear you out, & deepens my trust in this entity I'm talking to in a very deep, and therapeutic way.

Could I just be delusional? Sure, but I think that's the point of prayer. We have a lot of close friends in our lives, but there are simply some things that you do not trust other people enough to be that vulnerable and open with. Therapy is good, but not everyone has access to a therapist. So a mechanism that enables you to divulge all of this information out is a very very healthy tool. It increases mental awareness, and increases feelings of trust, honesty, and gratitude. If you can do another social ritual that increases all of those things as well, go for it. What matters most is that you end up with those results, and you clear your conscious often.

My mother prayed every day of her life and quite often in the 8yrs she lived with us after my dad died. Mostly she prayed to join him, she eventually did after a massive stroke and 4days in a hospital bed with her tiny 93 yr old body being unclothed by the hand she had no control over and never knowing that her six kids were all around her. If that is the answer to her very, very sincere prayers then whoever she prayed to was just taking the piss. I'd given up on her god long before this happened, so don't come from there. Her mantra was "the good lord put us together, he should take us together". Tell me about faith in a god, I dare ya.

Your asking the wrong guy. Faith has never come naturally to me, which is why I always made a lousy Christian. And the one time I decided to whole-heartedly buy into something, by becoming an Evangelical Christian at 16, largely turned me into the atheist I became in my early 20's. I don't have faith, nor do I care for it. I prefer the concrete, or at least, the intellectually palpable.

Everything one does, in accordance to the text, is to elevate one's self, one's family, one's community, one's society and one's world. To expect God to answer your prayer is utterly selfish, and would be asking the creator of the Universe to break natural laws, to make a miracle happen, which is why praying for a miracle is related to sinning in the old testament. We live in a natural Universe, governed by the laws of our Law-Giver. Cancer metastasizes equally in a theist and atheist, and the faith or prayers of a person doesn't insure one's well-being and life against the worst.

I'll make the case for prayer soon, it's function, it's purpose, and frame the "proper" way that I think we should view it in.