Injustice in the Quran and the Bible

[jessehove]

Deuteronomy declares that men who rape women should marry them, and the Quran promotes men marrying multiple wives, but not women marrying multiple men. How are we to understand these apparent injustices? Here is my answer:

http://mercyandmessiah.blogspot.ca/2013 ... bible.html

[Iam]

[Replying to post 27 by marketandchurch]

When will you two be publishing your translation of the bible, after all even though you believe the bible, when someone brings up any of the many amoral passages, you then run off and believe a different interpretation. I suggest you OFFICIALLY writ your own and it will say what you think it should say. It may cause some dificulty's when you have to make up apologetics for your own book.

This is not unknown. I suggest you borrow the Jewish Study Bible, published by the Jewish publication society. where there is commentary about the original Hebrew along side the passages. Now, the commentary on that passage is that with our current understanding of the Hebrew, it's ambiguous. There are terms that definitely mean rape, and there are terms that definitely do not mean rape, but in the case of this passage, the Hebrew is ambiguous..

Goat, I don't doubt that at all. But the bible either says what it says or it doesn't? If one can change what the bible says in any given situation, then what is it worth? This morning the hebrew word means grape at noon the greek word means coconut at 1pm the hebrew word means rape at 2pm the greek word means consensual fun at 3pm the hebrew word means infinity. How does this book have any meaning if the meanings of the words are arbitrary? Or at least undefined?

[Goat]

[Replying to post 27 by marketandchurch]

When will you two be publishing your translation of the bible, after all even though you believe the bible, when someone brings up any of the many amoral passages, you then run off and believe a different interpretation. I suggest you OFFICIALLY writ your own and it will say what you think it should say. It may cause some dificulty's when you have to make up apologetics for your own book.

This is not unknown. I suggest you borrow the Jewish Study Bible, published by the Jewish publication society. where there is commentary about the original Hebrew along side the passages. Now, the commentary on that passage is that with our current understanding of the Hebrew, it's ambiguous. There are terms that definitely mean rape, and there are terms that definitely do not mean rape, but in the case of this passage, the Hebrew is ambiguous..

Goat, I don't doubt that at all. But the bible either says what it says or it doesn't? If one can change what the bible says in any given situation, then what is it worth? This morning the hebrew word means grape at noon the greek word means coconut at 1pm the hebrew word means rape at 2pm the greek word means consensual fun at 3pm the hebrew word means infinity. How does this book have any meaning if the meanings of the words are arbitrary? Or at least undefined?

Who says I believe in the bible?? I am just pointing out that the English translations are often very poor and often wrong, and sometimes, the original meaning can not be known.

You are being ultra critical to the point of irrationality...

[Iam]

[Replying to post 27 by marketandchurch]

When will you two be publishing your translation of the bible, after all even though you believe the bible, when someone brings up any of the many amoral passages, you then run off and believe a different interpretation. I suggest you OFFICIALLY writ your own and it will say what you think it should say. It may cause some dificulty's when you have to make up apologetics for your own book.

This is not unknown. I suggest you borrow the Jewish Study Bible, published by the Jewish publication society. where there is commentary about the original Hebrew along side the passages. Now, the commentary on that passage is that with our current understanding of the Hebrew, it's ambiguous. There are terms that definitely mean rape, and there are terms that definitely do not mean rape, but in the case of this passage, the Hebrew is ambiguous..

Goat, I don't doubt that at all. But the bible either says what it says or it doesn't? If one can change what the bible says in any given situation, then what is it worth? This morning the hebrew word means grape at noon the greek word means coconut at 1pm the hebrew word means rape at 2pm the greek word means consensual fun at 3pm the hebrew word means infinity. How does this book have any meaning if the meanings of the words are arbitrary? Or at least undefined?

Who says I believe in the bible?? I am just pointing out that the English translations are often very poor and often wrong, and sometimes, the original meaning can not be known.

You are being ultra critical to the point of irrationality...

Show me where I accused you of believing the bible. I think you may protest too much. Perhaps.

[marketandchurch]

[Replying to post 27 by marketandchurch]

When will you two be publishing your translation of the bible, after all even though you believe the bible, when someone brings up any of the many amoral passages, you then run off and believe a different interpretation. I suggest you OFFICIALLY writ your own and it will say what you think it should say. It may cause some dificulty's when you have to make up apologetics for your own book.

This is not unknown. I suggest you borrow the Jewish Study Bible, published by the Jewish publication society. where there is commentary about the original Hebrew along side the passages. Now, the commentary on that passage is that with our current understanding of the Hebrew, it's ambiguous. There are terms that definitely mean rape, and there are terms that definitely do not mean rape, but in the case of this passage, the Hebrew is ambiguous..

Goat, I don't doubt that at all. But the bible either says what it says or it doesn't? If one can change what the bible says in any given situation, then what is it worth? This morning the hebrew word means grape at noon the greek word means coconut at 1pm the hebrew word means rape at 2pm the greek word means consensual fun at 3pm the hebrew word means infinity. How does this book have any meaning if the meanings of the words are arbitrary? Or at least undefined?

Who says I believe in the bible?? I am just pointing out that the English translations are often very poor and often wrong, and sometimes, the original meaning can not be known.

You are being ultra critical to the point of irrationality...

The English translation thoroughly destroy most stories. Because of the way the story of Abraham has been translated into English, one never knows that he and Sarah separate following the test of Abraham's faith. Because of the English translation of many versus, biblically illiterate and dishonest folks can liken the prohibition on same-sex relations, to eating shell-fish. All because of a mistranslation between the Hebrew and English.

I agree, the JPS version is the best version out there. The one I use doesn't have commentary, but allows you to read the hebrew, aramaic, and as best a possible job that one can do translating it into English, via the JPS version:

http://www.breslov.com/bible/bible.htm

[marketandchurch]

[Replying to post 27 by marketandchurch]

When will you two be publishing your translation of the bible, after all even though you believe the bible, when someone brings up any of the many amoral passages, you then run off and believe a different interpretation. I suggest you OFFICIALLY writ your own and it will say what you think it should say. It may cause some dificulty's when you have to make up apologetics for your own book.

This is not unknown. I suggest you borrow the Jewish Study Bible, published by the Jewish publication society. where there is commentary about the original Hebrew along side the passages. Now, the commentary on that passage is that with our current understanding of the Hebrew, it's ambiguous. There are terms that definitely mean rape, and there are terms that definitely do not mean rape, but in the case of this passage, the Hebrew is ambiguous..

Goat, I don't doubt that at all. But the bible either says what it says or it doesn't? If one can change what the bible says in any given situation, then what is it worth? This morning the hebrew word means grape at noon the greek word means coconut at 1pm the hebrew word means rape at 2pm the greek word means consensual fun at 3pm the hebrew word means infinity. How does this book have any meaning if the meanings of the words are arbitrary? Or at least undefined?

The bible has an exception. It began as an oral tradition. This oral tradition was then written down, so there is a loss of translation, just in that process alone. Then there is the process of translating it into another language. And from the Greek, it was translated into English, against losing meaning along the way. And again translated into modern english, again dumbing down the language to make sense to modern ears.

A more appropriate question you should be asking is what is the literal original translation, how was it understood in those times by those people, and what is the best possible way(s) that I and others can get access to this.

And words meant different things to different people in different places at different times in history. A Natural Philosopher in the Middle Ages is what we would call a scientist now our days, and a scientist in the middle ages, would be more of what we would call clergy or apologetics. What matters is that you come to learn what something meant to someone else during another time, instead of applying your present standing definitions of things to history as if everyone everywhere has always agreed to a strict interpretation & definition of everything.

[Jacob Simonsky]

Deuteronomy declares that men who rape women should marry them, and the Quran promotes men marrying multiple wives, but not women marrying multiple men. How are we to understand these apparent injustices? Here is my answer:

http://mercyandmessiah.blogspot.ca/2013 ... bible.html

Well, the term translated as 'rape' that is used in Deuteronomy is not neccesarily mean rape. There is some ambiguity about the term.. and COULD mean what we would call 'statutory rape'. A woman in that position can refuse to marry the man, but the man can not refuse to marry the woman. It's still a little barbaric, but not nearly as much as it being forcible rape.

I did not go to your reference but I want to say that the reason for multiple wives has always been the same in the ancient world. The success of a family group was dependent upon that group's strength. The more people born into a tribe the better that tribe's chance of survival was. It is not, as you claim, an injustice.

One man with lots of wives can make lots of kids but one wife with lots of husbands can still only produce one or two at a time. Plain, simple common sense.

[Jacob Simonsky]

A more appropriate question you should be asking is what is the literal original translation, how was it understood in those times by those people, and what is the best possible way(s) that I and others can get access to this.

And words meant different things to different people in different places at different times in history. A Natural Philosopher in the Middle Ages is what we would call a scientist now our days, and a scientist in the middle ages, would be more of what we would call clergy or apologetics. What matters is that you come to learn what something meant to someone else during another time, instead of applying your present standing definitions of things to history as if everyone everywhere has always agreed to a strict interpretation & definition of everything.[/quote]


Well praise the Lord. Someone on this forum who actually thinks!

[Iam]

[Replying to post 27 by marketandchurch]

When will you two be publishing your translation of the bible, after all even though you believe the bible, when someone brings up any of the many amoral passages, you then run off and believe a different interpretation. I suggest you OFFICIALLY writ your own and it will say what you think it should say. It may cause some dificulty's when you have to make up apologetics for your own book.

This is not unknown. I suggest you borrow the Jewish Study Bible, published by the Jewish publication society. where there is commentary about the original Hebrew along side the passages. Now, the commentary on that passage is that with our current understanding of the Hebrew, it's ambiguous. There are terms that definitely mean rape, and there are terms that definitely do not mean rape, but in the case of this passage, the Hebrew is ambiguous..

Goat, I don't doubt that at all. But the bible either says what it says or it doesn't? If one can change what the bible says in any given situation, then what is it worth? This morning the hebrew word means grape at noon the greek word means coconut at 1pm the hebrew word means rape at 2pm the greek word means consensual fun at 3pm the hebrew word means infinity. How does this book have any meaning if the meanings of the words are arbitrary? Or at least undefined?

The bible has an exception. It began as an oral tradition. This oral tradition was then written down, so there is a loss of translation, just in that process alone. Then there is the process of translating it into another language. And from the Greek, it was translated into English, against losing meaning along the way. And again translated into modern english, again dumbing down the language to make sense to modern ears.

A more appropriate question you should be asking is what is the literal original translation, how was it understood in those times by those people, and what is the best possible way(s) that I and others can get access to this.

And words meant different things to different people in different places at different times in history. A Natural Philosopher in the Middle Ages is what we would call a scientist now our days, and a scientist in the middle ages, would be more of what we would call clergy or apologetics. What matters is that you come to learn what something meant to someone else during another time, instead of applying your present standing definitions of things to history as if everyone everywhere has always agreed to a strict interpretation & definition of everything.

There ya go. As usual there is no argument because it can mean whatever sect or individual claims it means. Allegedly it starts with once upon a time there were three bears (according to some).