The Problem with Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists

[jessehove]

Here is the similar problem with Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists as I see it:

http://mercyandmessiah.blogspot.ca/2013 ... lists.html

P.S. Notice I am using a specific definition of what Fundamentalism from a historical modern definition in Christianity and Islam respectively.

[Ooberman]

@ Ooberman

Which was written by a human being.... 

How does your mind reconcile your claim that no human being was involved in introducing you to your god, when the Koran was written, is published, distributed, sold and read by human beings?

What makes you think this Ooberman?

What do you mean by introducing??, and please forward some evidence that proves that the Quran was written by man and not a revelation from God. The Quran being compiled by man, sold and read by humans does not mean that this is not from God. 

The only evidence we have are modern copies of the Koran. They were printed by man-made machines.

The burden is obviously on you to prove it was written with guidance from God, and that God exists.

Go for it! Give us your best argument for God!

And "prove he doesn't exist" isn't an argument. It's a childish dodge.

[Allahakbar]

@ Goat

Of course, what you can't show is that, well, your claims that the Quran are 'God's given scripture' can not be shown to be true. Yes, you can play those word games and claim 'the quran predicted such and such'.. and claim , in a ciruclar manner, no one but God could have written it.. the Christians do the same thing with the Bible, but those are just confirmation bias and word games. You take vague references and retrofit meaning. The inflexibilty of the fundamentalist let's them justify a certain measure of injustice and cruelty, and then claim 'oh, but it's better'. The problem is that they can't even see it, and see on just how destructive their worldview is.

I have already shown you how this is true, if one choses not to accept the truth, reject and deny this, it doesn't make him correct, he would need to disprove the source from its source as any false religion would have contradictions and errors in it. We as Muslims believe that the original Gospel including the Torah were from God, however the current bibles have been changed, but how can any sound Christian claim that what they believe and practice today is what God commanded when there are so many contradictions found in their very own scriptures?? Any person that comprehensively analyses this will come to this conclusion. If you were following Goat you would have realized that it is others that take a verse of the Quran then claim that Muslims are giving it an entire different meaning, the Quran is very clear so are it's verses. It is not a book of science even though it is comparable with science. I don't understand this form of mentality when people that criticize the Quran can't even explain their own ideologies and when Muslims adhere to the truth they cannot let them live in peace. The problem lies with those that try and change the religion of God and try and reform the world to their own imperfect beliefs that do not represent any form of truth especially when it is not from God, the Creator of all.

Christians ignore and wave off the contradictions in the bible just the same as Muslims ignore and wave off the contradictions in the Quran.

The Bible was written by men inspired by God, but the Quran was written as dictated by God; so, there is a big difference. the Quran cannot have any doubt in it, but the Bible has some 400,000 variances in it, but most of them are spelling errors, translation and nonsense errors. There are also a few minor interpolations that don't hurt the central gospel message. There are no significant variances in the Bible; they are all negligible. That is not the case with the Quran. In one place it says Allah saved Jesus from death then it says he killed him. There is also a serious abrogation (Satanic verse) in the Quran by non prophet Uthman who acted as Allah's editor.

If the Bible had any error regarding the death and resurrection of Christ or a contradiction there, that would end Christianity as we know it. Every Bible agrees on the central gospel message. The good news is a very simple message. That is we have all sinned and come short of god's glory, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. he died and rose from the dead. We choose whether to accept this message or not. Ro. 10,9, 10; Ro. 6:23; Ro. 3:23

What a generous little god you have. His creation does his bidding so he punishes ALL the sons and daughters of that creation, then he instigates the real plan and kills his son so that SOME of those sons and daughters can be saved from his unjust eternal punishment, all the while claiming that the sins of the fathers will not be visited on the son.
I am absolutely convinced that YOU will not recognize any contradiction in that though.

What kind of god do you have?

A big one, a Rottweiler. Really nice though.

[Burninglight]

@ Goat

Of course, what you can't show is that, well, your claims that the Quran are 'God's given scripture' can not be shown to be true. Yes, you can play those word games and claim 'the quran predicted such and such'.. and claim , in a ciruclar manner, no one but God could have written it.. the Christians do the same thing with the Bible, but those are just confirmation bias and word games. You take vague references and retrofit meaning. The inflexibilty of the fundamentalist let's them justify a certain measure of injustice and cruelty, and then claim 'oh, but it's better'. The problem is that they can't even see it, and see on just how destructive their worldview is.

I have already shown you how this is true, if one choses not to accept the truth, reject and deny this, it doesn't make him correct, he would need to disprove the source from its source as any false religion would have contradictions and errors in it. We as Muslims believe that the original Gospel including the Torah were from God, however the current bibles have been changed, but how can any sound Christian claim that what they believe and practice today is what God commanded when there are so many contradictions found in their very own scriptures?? Any person that comprehensively analyses this will come to this conclusion. If you were following Goat you would have realized that it is others that take a verse of the Quran then claim that Muslims are giving it an entire different meaning, the Quran is very clear so are it's verses. It is not a book of science even though it is comparable with science. I don't understand this form of mentality when people that criticize the Quran can't even explain their own ideologies and when Muslims adhere to the truth they cannot let them live in peace. The problem lies with those that try and change the religion of God and try and reform the world to their own imperfect beliefs that do not represent any form of truth especially when it is not from God, the Creator of all.

Christians ignore and wave off the contradictions in the bible just the same as Muslims ignore and wave off the contradictions in the Quran.

The Bible was written by men inspired by God, but the Quran was written as dictated by God; so, there is a big difference. the Quran cannot have any doubt in it, but the Bible has some 400,000 variances in it, but most of them are spelling errors, translation and nonsense errors. There are also a few minor interpolations that don't hurt the central gospel message. There are no significant variances in the Bible; they are all negligible. That is not the case with the Quran. In one place it says Allah saved Jesus from death then it says he killed him. There is also a serious abrogation (Satanic verse) in the Quran by non prophet Uthman who acted as Allah's editor.

If the Bible had any error regarding the death and resurrection of Christ or a contradiction there, that would end Christianity as we know it. Every Bible agrees on the central gospel message. The good news is a very simple message. That is we have all sinned and come short of god's glory, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. he died and rose from the dead. We choose whether to accept this message or not. Ro. 10,9, 10; Ro. 6:23; Ro. 3:23

What a generous little god you have. His creation does his bidding so he punishes ALL the sons and daughters of that creation, then he instigates the real plan and kills his son so that SOME of those sons and daughters can be saved from his unjust eternal punishment, all the while claiming that the sins of the fathers will not be visited on the son.
I am absolutely convinced that YOU will not recognize any contradiction in that though.

What kind of god do you have?

A big one, a Rottweiler. Really nice though.

I see, your god is a dog.

[HaLi8993]

@ Ooberman

The only evidence we have are modern copies of the Koran. They were printed by man-made machines. 

The burden is obviously on you to prove it was written with guidance from God, and that God exists. 

Go for it! Give us your best argument for God! 

And "prove he doesn't exist" isn't an argument. It's a childish dodge.

The Quran whether it is printed by man made machines (a revelation from God), in order to have a written record and prevent it from becoming lost does not mean it has been corrupted or that it is not the truth. The Quran has been memorized by many past and present, if the Quran were not the words of God it would have many contradictions in it.

I have already proven on ample occasions and threads how God exists and also presented vast evidence that confirm that the Quran is the true word of God. I suggest you revisit my posts and go to my threads and check it out.

Proving God doesn't exist is the best of arguments as you nor anybody else has been able to do so, nor has anybody been able to disprove the Quran to be wrong.

All I have seen is empty statements, ignorance, rejection, manipulations, slander and illogical arguments. And when people fail to support their arguments they simply move on and jump to another topic or ignore the questions posed.

This is what I would call childish lol

[A Troubled Man]

The Quran has been memorized by many past and present, if the Quran were not the words of God it would have many contradictions in it.

Many books were written that were memorized and contained no contradictions. What's your point?

I have already proven on ample occasions and threads how God exists and also presented vast evidence that confirm that the Quran is the true word of God. I suggest you revisit my posts and go to my threads and check it out.

It would appear many of your posts were easily refuted upon revisit.

Proving God doesn't exist is the best of arguments as you nor anybody else has been able to do so, nor has anybody been able to disprove the Quran to be wrong.

The Quran hasn't been shown to be right, either. Allah would need appear.

All I have seen is empty statements, ignorance, rejection, manipulations, slander and illogical arguments. And when people fail to support their arguments they simply move on and jump to another topic or ignore the questions posed.

This is what I would call childish lol

I would agree. Why are your posts so childish, then?

[HaLi8993]

@ A Troubled Man

Many books were written that were memorized and contained no contradictions. What's your point?

Such as???

It would appear many of your posts were easily refuted upon revisit.

Don't think so....

The Quran hasn't been shown to be right, either. Allah would need appear.

Of course it has, God has sent Prophets and Messengers to prove his existence. Seeing God is only what is reserved for the righteous that will enter Paradise. Not those who reject Him.

I would agree. Why are your posts so childish, then?

Nice Try!!

[A Troubled Man]

Such as???

Shakespeare's sonnets, Mariners Laws, The Bible... etc., the list is endless. Again, do you have a point?

Don't think so....

Your denials of those refutations have no validity.

Of course it has, God has sent Prophets and Messengers to prove his existence.

Prophets and Messengers are liars and frauds. Gods did not send them.

Seeing God is only what is reserved for the righteous that will enter Paradise. Not those who reject Him.

No, you are not special.

[HaLi8993]

@ A Troubled Man

Shakespeare's sonnets, Mariners Laws, The Bible... etc., the list is endless. Again, do you have a point?

We are not dealing with love poems here lol, as for Mariners Law, I doubt anyone would know that by heart, and considering all the injustice that it includes it can hardly be called free from contradictions and error:

http://towmasters.files.wordpress.com/2 ... system.pdf

The bible?? Your kidding right! I can find many contradictions and errors in the bible happy to discuss if interested. 

Therefore for a religion to be considered from God it must not contain any contradictions nor errors. Something the Quran is free of.

Your denials of those refutations have no validity.

What have I denied??

Prophets and Messengers are liars and frauds. Gods did not send them.

Your denial and rejection of the truth without any evidence to support what you say can only be considered  nothing more than an empty statement.

No, you are not special.

Don't consider myself to be, lol 

[Allahakbar]

Therefore for a religion to be considered from God it must not contain any contradictions nor errors. Something the Quran is free of

The FACT that muslims refuse to recognize the errors and contradictions in the quran does not equate to there being none.
There are many.

[A Troubled Man]

We are not dealing with love poems here lol, as for Mariners Law, I doubt anyone would know that by heart, and considering all the injustice that it includes it can hardly be called free from contradictions and error:

Just like the Quran, full of injustice. Of course, your doubts are irrelevant to that fact and the fact that people memorize books.

The bible?? Your kidding right! I can find many contradictions and errors in the bible happy to discuss if interested. 

And, you will dishonestly deny any contradictions and errors in the Quran, just like you've been doing all along.

Therefore for a religion to be considered from God it must not contain any contradictions nor errors. Something the Quran is free of.

See what I mean.

Your denial and rejection of the truth without any evidence to support what you say can only be considered  nothing more than an empty statement.

There is little if any truth in the Quran. This has been pointed out on many occasions, but we understand your denials of that fact.