Isa--Jesus

Argue for and against religions and philosophies which are not Christian

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unicorn
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Isa--Jesus

Post #1

Post by unicorn »

I know many Christians are confused about their religion (e.g. believing that salvation can be earned through works rather than being a gift), so when I say this, I mean no disrespect, but are many Muslims confused about their religion? I thought that Islam expressed that Jesus did not rise from the dead and was not the Messiah/Son of God. But, I have read some articles lately that have said otherwise:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/quran-jesus.html

http://www.the-good-way.com/eng/book/b06.htm

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MagusYanam
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Post #31

Post by MagusYanam »

snappyanswer wrote:One minor victory for freedom in an Islamic country in how many centuries since Mohammad's followers started their war campaign?
You obviously have very little understanding of Iranian history. Before the revolution of 1979, women were relatively free in their dress and non-Islamic religions (Zoroastrianism among them) still had a substantial following and didn't suffer persecution. After the revolution, things were different, because a conservative religious leader ended up on top.

As regards Islamic history in general, the Ottoman Empire was generally far more free and tolerant than any Western nation up until about the 1700's, when they were supplanted by Great Britain.
snappyanswer wrote:When was the last time there was a Christian music concert held in Turkey? Any mass evangelizing campaigns held in Turkey? Notice I did not use the word "crusade." There is a reason for this.
By 'Christian music concert' I hope you don't mean those insipid pop-rock concerts which are nothing but so-called 'praise music'. Ugh. No, I have no doubt that in the Orthodox churches of Turkey, they sing real hymns, not that bubblegum bilge that passes for 'Christian music' these days.

As for mass-evangelising campaigns, there are a very few Christian denominations which employ such tactics, so it's no measure for freedom of religion. Witness, btw, is far better done in service, like the Peace Corps, the Heifer Project, the Interfaith Hospitality Network or any of numerous other charity groups run largely by Christians which (yes) do operate freely in most Islamic countries.
snappyanswer wrote:Yes of course it does. The God of Abraham and Hagar is the God of the Israelites. Let's see what Genesis 16 says about Hagar's child Ishmael?
And we are living with the enmity between Hajar and Sarah to this day. Something which the wiser among us, including the wiser among Hajar's descendants, are working to correct.

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Post #32

Post by snappyanswer »

snappyanswer wrote:
One minor victory for freedom in an Islamic country in how many centuries since Mohammad's followers started their war campaign?


You obviously have very little understanding of Iranian history. Before the revolution of 1979, women were relatively free in their dress and non-Islamic religions (Zoroastrianism among them) still had a substantial following and didn't suffer persecution. After the revolution, things were different, because a conservative religious leader ended up on top.

As regards Islamic history in general, the Ottoman Empire was generally far more free and tolerant than any Western nation up until about the 1700's, when they were supplanted by Great Britain.

snappyanswer wrote:
When was the last time there was a Christian music concert held in Turkey? Any mass evangelizing campaigns held in Turkey? Notice I did not use the word "crusade." There is a reason for this.


By 'Christian music concert' I hope you don't mean those insipid pop-rock concerts which are nothing but so-called 'praise music'. Ugh. No, I have no doubt that in the Orthodox churches of Turkey, they sing real hymns, not that bubblegum bilge that passes for 'Christian music' these days.

As for mass-evangelising campaigns, there are a very few Christian denominations which employ such tactics, so it's no measure for freedom of religion. Witness, btw, is far better done in service, like the Peace Corps, the Heifer Project, the Interfaith Hospitality Network or any of numerous other charity groups run largely by Christians which (yes) do operate freely in most Islamic countries.

snappyanswer wrote:
Yes of course it does. The God of Abraham and Hagar is the God of the Israelites. Let's see what Genesis 16 says about Hagar's child Ishmael?


And we are living with the enmity between Hajar and Sarah to this day. Something which the wiser among us, including the wiser among Hajar's descendants, are working to correct.
WOW! That is all I have to say for the most part.
By 'Christian music concert' I hope you don't mean those insipid pop-rock concerts which are nothing but so-called 'praise music'. Ugh.
The [insipid] pop-rock concerts where thousands and thousands of youth and others have found their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

Now I understand many things we have discussed and understand the perspective they are argued from.

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MagusYanam
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Post #33

Post by MagusYanam »

snappyanswer wrote:The [insipid] pop-rock concerts where thousands and thousands of youth and others have found their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

Now I understand many things we have discussed and understand the perspective they are argued from.
I am still of the opinion that you get far closer to a spiritual experience of Christ through the musical genius of Handel's Messiah than through the three chords of POD, in which I find little artistic merit and no taste. But that's just my own aesthetics; you're welcome to your own.

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Post #34

Post by snappyanswer »

I welcome the Spirit of God with 30,000 other believers at Christian music concerts when one of the amazing new bands lead us in worship with any number of hundreds of those three chord (or more) pop-rock songs; then, stops the music to pray with us 30,000 worshippers.

BTW, I was at a music festival and walked by a Republican tent setup with many vendors, for new membership registration. I told them that I had a problem with a political group at the event. I told them in no uncertain terms what I thought about so many pro-choice, pro-gay rights and pro-war politicians there were in the GOP and the big business tycoons that ply their trade under GOP banners, while families cannot afford a home anymore.

I drew a large crowd and the Repubs had no answers other than saying people had the right to choose. I informed them that people have the right to choose but, after hearing the truth of what IS politics today. Christians should have little to do with that. If we are to challenge FOR the truth (like challenging Islam) then the truth must be told.

I love Handel's Messiah. My daughter is learning the piano AND contemporary Christian Music, which, I think is almost the most powerful voice for what Christianty IS on earth today. If we Christians were to live our lives with worship first, then everything else falls into place. BTW, P.O.D. and other bands that have Christian themes are doing more for the lost than classical music can. I have seen this with my own eyes. Just a note.

Also, order the DVD by Luis Palau's organization about the outreach being done by Stephen Baldwin and Palau.

http://www.palau.org/lpea/resources/news.php?rowid=242
Livin It: Unusual Suspects
A special TV show airing this month will explain the impact of the Gospel through the lives of four exciting and well-known people.

Stephen Baldwin, Actor
Hollywood success couldn’t bring him lasting fulfillment...following Christ did.

Christian Hosoi, Skater
Destined for skateboarding greatness, he wound up in prison...Jesus Christ set him free.

Luis Palau, Evangelist
From poverty and darkness in Latin America...to sharing the light of Christ with millions worldwide.

Chynna Phillips, Musician
With a childhood marred by substance abuse, the daughter of John and Michelle Phillips grew up with every temptation money could buy...but found happiness in Christ alone.

These four prominent people put the truth of the Gospel on the line and bravely share their stories of real-life hardship, heartache, and transformation through Jesus Christ in an inspirational 60-minute television special.

To see the power of Christ at work in a relevant way through the lives of real people, steer all your friends to Livin It: Unusual Suspects.

Watch Livin It: Unusual Suspects this December on PAX (i) TV or check your local television schedule for other viewing times.

I certainly want mt daughter to hear the pro-abstinenece, pro-marriage message of the Barlow Girls, Zoe Girl, and Super Chick, before she is indoctrinated into the disgusting message of the world delivered by Brittany Spears and MTV that awaits her in just a few short years.

If Islamic countries allowed Christian Music concerts, then there would be a whole lot different idea of Christianty in Muslim minds. Ten's of thousands of Christian hands raised empty and praising Jesus is a powerful presentation of the beauty of our faith.

Happy New Year.

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MagusYanam
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Post #35

Post by MagusYanam »

snappyanswer wrote:If we Christians were to live our lives with worship first, then everything else falls into place. BTW, P.O.D. and other bands that have Christian themes are doing more for the lost than classical music can. I have seen this with my own eyes. Just a note.
Messiah isn't technically classical music - it's actually a set of late Baroque oratorios. Unfortunately, you do happen to be right - people in general (at least in Western society) are more apt to follow what's popular than what's in good taste.
snappyanswer wrote:If Islamic countries allowed Christian Music concerts, then there would be a whole lot different idea of Christianty in Muslim minds. Ten's of thousands of Christian hands raised empty and praising Jesus is a powerful presentation of the beauty of our faith.
I have no doubt that Turkey does under law allow Christian rock concerts, but whether any would be financial successes would be another story. The Turks have different musical tastes than we do - if you look at the history of their music they have a tendency to like 4/4 marches and big-band stuff, so I think Isaac Watts and pipe organs would be more their cup of tea than Ministry (the rock band). Just my guess.

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Post #36

Post by snappyanswer »

MagusYanam,

PM me because I don't know how to do it. I do know how to respond. It's a Christian thing.

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