Karma

[Wootah]

ref:To believe in Jesus

Jesus was teaching the principle of karma.

That was his message as far as I'm concerned.

I believe in karma, therefore I believe in the teachings of Jesus because Jesus was teaching karma. Thus I believe in the message of Jesus. And so I believe in Jesus in that sense.

Who would like to explain Karma to me and be willing to examine whether Karma is a cogent philosophical concept?

[Divine Insight]

A better question is what good would Adam be without God?

He probably wouldn't be any worse off than God was without Adam.

If anything the story would have made more sense the other way around. Eve could have been created first, because she is the one who can have a baby, then Adam should have been created as her "Helpmate" because she would clearly need help since her purpose would be to raise the children she can have.

Says you, I am glad you weren’t my Creator

Why? Do you have something against the man being the one to take care of his family? Maybe we would have had more responsible father had religion been matriarchal instead of patriarchal.

It doesn't work the other way around. What would Adam have needed a helpmate for?

So the story seems to be backwards from how it should have naturally been anyway.

God’s ways are not our ways.[/quote

Why is that always the excuse for everything in the Bible that is clearly stupid?

But we know this isn't true. We have overwhelming evidence that animals that ate each other roamed the earth before humans showed up on the planet. And disease and death were also clearly a natural process of life. So you need to ignore reality in order to support these ancient myths.

Where do you get this evidence? The last I checked evolution was a theory.

No, evolution is far more than just a theory. There is a "Theory of Evolution". But that's just the explanation of how it works. There is also overwhelming evidence for evolution. In fact, if our schools are still teaching evolution as a 'Theory" they really should stop that immediately and start teaching it as a fact because the evidence is overwhelming.

The only people who argue against it are religious fruitcakes who prefer ancient male-chauvinistic rumors over reality.

Where did you come up with that? Where does it stay this in the Biblical stories?

So you know your Bible, I made an inference. Adam named all the animals and remembered all their names.

Well, if he named them I hope he remembered what he had named them.

The only problem with that is that, in truth, no one ever knew all the animals on Earth. Moreover, they were named when they were discovered. So the myth that Adam named all the animals is indeed just a myth.

I can't find where it says that in my Bible. Can you point the verses where these things are being described in the Bible?

What for you wouldn’t believe it anyway. What good would it do you if you believe it is a fable? I can make inferences by Adam’s actions. He did disobey for a reason. I am sharing what I believe that reason was

That's fine, but I have no reason to jump to the same conclusions you do.

You are clearly just jumping to conclusion that aren't in the story.

The ruler of this world?

I thought God created this world and "Saw that it was good"?

What happened to that?

Yes, it is Scriptural, but God is the ruler of the ruler of this world.

So in other words, Satan is just God's "hit man" like in the story of Job.

That's pretty sick.

Exactly, which proves my point that God's violent and cruel punishment to make him crawl on his belly and eat dirt didn't even slow him down.

He was cursed by God. You choose to believe God is cruel, but I choose to see Him as all wise and loving!

I just go by what the story says. Making someone crawl on their belly and eat dirt is neither wise nor loving, IMHO.

But to each his own. In fact, if you think that's a wise and loving thing to do to someone then I can understand why you find the Bible attractive and believable.

And you have no problem putting down other people's religions as being "The Greatest Deception of All".
This is the extreme arrogance that comes from these "jealous-God" religions.

God cannot be arrogant. I put down religion that is not pure. Religion alone is what nailed Jesus to the cross. It is a relationship God wants us to have with Him. I have experience that in my life to where it bears witness with my spirit. I have had this encounter. And for that I thank my Lord and my God.

I agree religion is what nailed Jesus to the cross, and it was this very same religion that Jesus was then nailed to as the son of that very same God.

I have often asked, "What kind of a God would commend men to kill blasphemers and then turn around and send his son into that very same crowd to blaspheme himself? What did this God expect would happen?

This God would not only have been a fool for having directed men to kill blasphemers, but then to turn around and send his son into that same crowd to blaspheme himself before them is even more foolish.

A clay pot doesn't have a soul.

I don't know about your sense of morality, but if I were to create a fully sentient living being I would care what it has to say. And I would care about what it feels, and I would be more than happy to answer any questions it put to me. I would also feel personally responsible if it wasn't happy with the way I had created it.

Who said God doesn’t care? The pot was just an illustration.

Well, it was a bad analogy then. We are not clay pots.

Why should I be so arrogant that I wouldn't even care what the object of my creation thinks?

Where does that mentality even come from?

Who said God didn’t care. I just said what right does a creation living soul or not have to rebuke its maker? That is like Adam thinking he could do a better job than God; otherwise, he wouldn’t have fallen for the temptation to be like God. Satan did the same.

The created has every right to think whatever he is capable of thinking. And it's up to the creator to deal with that. After all, the creator created Adam's Mind too!

So the creator is fully responsible for how Adam might think.

I would consider that mentality to be a highly immoral mentality to be perfectly honest about it.

If I create something I am totally responsible for it.

God created us and made us responsible for the world and each other. Look at the mess we are making without God. Do you have the answers? Are you God?

I do have answers. But no one is going to listen to me. If they would listen to me we could have a great world.

And yes, I would make a great God.

Well, in biblical terms that probably makes sense because women were "SOLD" as wives to husbands and the women didn't have an say in the matter.

I personally don't condone that type of behavior either. A marriage should be between two consenting free people, IMHO.

Selling woman wasnpt God’s commands and who said marriage cannot be between consenting adults?

It is now, but it wasn't in biblical days. In fact many backward countries that have been brought up in Abraham faiths still have arranged marriages to this very day. It's actually still happening in this 21st century. And it grew out of these ancient religious beliefs.

If this God wants to marry me he should ask for my hand in marriage, and I should be free to decide whether I'm interested in marrying him or not.

He shouldn't take me for granted just because he created me. Like I say, I wouldn't take a sentient life form that I created for granted, why should I expect my creator to take me for granted?

Jesus said “Behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man hears my voice and opens the door I will come in and sup with him and he with me� Rev 3: 20. The door handle is on the inside and you get to consent or reject it. God allows you to freely have you way. If you want a Godless and Christless life, he will allow that for you. From the way you see God, I couldn’t understand why you’d want to be with Him!

Jesus has had an open invitation to come into my life anytime he so desires for over 5 decades. The door is wide open and the red carpet has even been rolled out. I can't twist his arm. In fact, if there is a judgment day Jesus had better fess up that he's the one who refused to come into my life, not the other way around. Unless he's a habitual liar.

According to the Christians Jesus didn't bring life, he brought an ultimatum. Either agree to marry him or hell cast you into a hell fire. That's not even a decent marriage proposal. It's an ultimatum and if a man were to make such an ultimate to a free woman in a free country he would be considered to be an insane criminal.

I don’t see it that way. I see hell as the absence of God. Someone who had that much bitterness against the God of the Bible wold be much mor uncomfortable in the light of His presence than the light of hell if there is any light there.

Atheist have no God and they aren't in hell.

This is the hogwash of Christianity. It's absolute nonsense.

It's a cult that claims that we are in dire need of repentance and if we don't beg for forgiveness and cower down to the demands of the cult we will be cast into a hell fire and burnt forever supposedly deservedly so.

And that my friend if the hallmark of a "Hate Cult".

There is no love in it at all.

No, it is not a cult, Taoism and wicca are! You cannot see the love, because your hate blinds you. You are in your own personal deception and cult as well, IMHO.

I'm not in a cult at all.

And there is no hate within me. You are imagining there to be hate within me simply because I point out how hateful Hebrew mythology truly is.

But there is no hate in me. On the contrary, like I say, Jesus is more than welcome at my house anytime he cares to stop by. If he doesn't stop by I can't be blamed for that.

The story wouldn't make sense even if he did rise from the dead.

The story is still a very bad story. Period.

As I mentioned the preaching of the cross is to those that perish foolishness, but unto us who are saved, it is the power of God. There is no other name given whereby we might be saved but Jesus Christ. Jesus said, “They hate me without a cause!�

Who hated Jesus? As far as I can tell the only people who hated him were the Jewish Priests that he was publicly calling hypocrites.

Even Pontius Pilate seemed to like Jesus according to the Gospel rumors. At least Pilate found no fault with Jesus and exonerated him of all charges.

I too can imagine a God that is beyond the dimension of space and time. That's not the problem with Christianity. The problem with Christianity is that the biblical story doesn't hold water. It's totally contradictory.

It is contradictory to you, but not to me and millions like me.

Well, fine, but that doesn't hold any merit in debate. Lots of people are wrong about a lot of things.

I mean, after all, there are just as many Muslims believing in Islam and you have already renounced that religion as being a farce created by Satan. So clearly the fact that a lot of people are falling for it doesn't give it any credence.

So playing the "masses believe it" card clearly can't mean anything.

Well, if you truly do understand how I can feel the way I do, then surely you can imagine that a God of infinite intelligence would even understand more so. And therefore I have good reason to believe that if there actually exists any genuinely righteous God that God will be perfectly ok with me rejecting Hebrew mythology.

I only speak for myself. I don’t condemn you here and now.

Well I certainly hope not. According to Jesus you're not supposed to be condemning anyone.

I'm not a fool for anyone. I choose to be a good person because it's who I want to be. And not for any other reason.

Really, come on, every one is a fool for something or someone

Clearly your reality is quite different from mine. No wonder we can't see things the same way.

Do you need a God to choose to be a good person?

There is not one good person. Only God is good.

And where do you get that? From the Bible again. But as far as I'm concerned you may as well be citing the Qur'an. In fact, it's probably in there too since these are both basically the same religion just copied.

Here's the way I look at the whole thing,...{snip}

There is a way that seems right to a man, but that is the way that leads to death. Jesus said, wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, but straight is the way and narrow that leads to life and few they be that find it. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He said no one comes to the father except through Him. He said you will die in your sin unless you believe I am He! I believe and I am very happy with that.

I'm not trying to change what you believe.

This is a debating site. I simply disagree with the mythology that you have been quoting from.

I state my reasons why I do not believe it. I am not trying to convince you to not believe it.

I'm fully aware of all the claims the religion makes. And as far as I'm concerned they are the hallmark of a selfish cult that tries to coerce people into joining it and supporting it using fear tactics.

And that's precisely what you have just quoted above "Fear Tactics".

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but that is the way that leads to death."

That's a fear tactic.

"Jesus said, wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, but straight is the way and narrow that leads to life and few they be that find it."

This is not only a fear tactic, but it's also a proclamation that the God of this religion is a loser God. According to these words of Jesus this creator God loses the vast majority of souls that he creates because only "few" will make it to life leaving the vast majority to fall to the way of destruction.

That's a creator who has an extremely bad success rate in his creation of souls.

So it's a loser God who loses the vast majority of souls that he creates by Jesus' own confession.

"Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. He said no one comes to the father except through Him. He said you will die in your sin unless you believe I am He!"

More fear tactics. If you don't believe in our demigod you'll die in your sins.

The Muslims pull these same kinds of fear tactics with Islam.

This is what "jealous-God" myths were created to do. Strike fear into anyone who refuses to join and support the cult.

These aren't decent religions for decent people.

These are religions designed to strike fear into people who are either full of guilt themselves or who are easily frightened by these kinds of idle threats.

You dismiss evolution as "Just a Theory" (in spite of the overwhelming evidence for it), yet you accept these ancient fables and rumors as though they are the confirmed "Word of God" (in spite of the fact that there is absolutely no evidence for any of it).

How exactly does that work?