What is evidence for origin of Shia Islam

[Duvduv]

Many Sunnis I have spoken to claim that there is no evidence at all of any Shia Islam community as such anywhere until Ismael I created it in Iran in the 15th century based on teachings imported from Lebanon circulating among Arabs there which venerated Ali. I would go one step further and argue that in fact veneration of Ali was integrated into conventional Islam AFTER the establishment of the Quran in order to draw in smaller sects, but that the emerging Shia religion merely adopted aspects of Islam and integrated it with their Ali veneration religion.
Indeed, there is no empirical evidence for the existence of specifically Shia communities, regions, etc. Secular scholars of Islam never question or challenge any of the established assumptions about Islamic origins in general, and about Shia Islam in particular.
And where is the evidence that the Ismaili regime in Egypt was actually Shia?!

[jamesyaqub]

[Replying to post 1 by Duvduv]



I was taught that the friction between Shia and Sunni dates from the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and that it was nothing more complicated than an interpretation of his words regarding succession (leadership of Islam following the prophet's death).

Regarding the supposed Shia's in Egypt I know little.

[Duvduv]

However, the view you are presenting is the standard Shia version and the version accepted by what would be described as Islamophile scholars who unlike in the case of Judaism and Christianity take the traditional view of the origins of Islam at face value as presented by the Muslims themselves. Except that the traditional Sunni view of the origin of Shiism is that it DID NOT exist until the emergence of the Saffavid dynasty in Persia. Thus, the idea of Shiism emerging right after the time that Muhammad allegedly lived and died is considered PURE MYTH among Sunnis.

[Replying to post 1 by Duvduv]



I was taught that the friction between Shia and Sunni dates from the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and that it was nothing more complicated than an interpretation of his words regarding succession (leadership of Islam following the prophet's death).

Regarding the supposed Shia's in Egypt I know little.