How Many One Gods can there be?

[McCulloch]

In another thread

Ok. If someone believes in a Creator God, then they are in accordance with every (real) religion.

Not really. How many gods are there ? Are the gods all-powerful ? Do they thirst for the blood of unbelievers ? What do the gods command us to do ? All of the major religions that we have today (yes, including Christianity, Judaism and Islam) disagree on these important points, and on many others as well.

This raises a question that, I think deserves its own discussion.

Do the major monotheist religions believe different things about the same god or do they believe in different gods?

For the moment let's discuss Judaism, Islam and the many flavours of Christianity and, if you will, Christian inspired religions. Let's ignore the claim made by some that trinitarian Christians are not monotheists, since they by their own peculiar twist of logic claim that they are monotheists.

On the one hand, every monotheist religion, by definition, makes the claim that there is only one god. Therefore, if someone not of that religion, makes reference to god, claiming as well, that there is one god, then it seems reasonable that they must be talking about the same god. Also, historically, the Christians claim that their god is identical to the god of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and David. Islam claims that their Allah is the same god as the Christian's.

On the other hand, YHWH, the Christian's Triune god and Allah, bear very little resemblance to each other.

[Bro Dave]

Bugmaster, God is there within, awaiting our willingness to greet Him...

Again, how do you know this is true ?

From my personal experience, I find that it is less of a conversation, that an instantenous downloading of entire concepts. And, there is an overwhelming presents of being loved. Really though, it is the most personal experience possible, and probably as unique as we each are.

Ok, I have not had this experience. Many people who have had it interpret it very differently; for example, Muslims interpret it as, "Allah wants us to kill Jews and other infidels right away". How do you know that you're right and they're wrong ?

Mankind has use God to justify any and every evil thing imaginable. God knows us each, and approaches us in whatever way is best. Still, it is for us to accept. God is not pushy. We have literally an eternity to get it right! For me, a good "filter" is this, "If it is not loving, God did not ask for it to be done". That's how I know who's wrong. As for who is right, well, technically, none of us. We are far too limited to really get much of a handle on INFINITY. But we are all moving towards being right, if we move toward knowing God better.

Bro Dave

[Bugmaster]

Mankind has use God to justify any and every evil thing imaginable. God knows us each, and approaches us in whatever way is best. Still, it is for us to accept. God is not pushy. We have literally an eternity to get it right! For me, a good "filter" is this, "If it is not loving, God did not ask for it to be done". That's how I know who's wrong.

Ok, so you have this pre-conceived notion that God must be loving and patient; therefore, any non-loving or non-patient God is false.

So... how did you arrive at this notion ? Why do you think it's true ? Why couldn't God be a cruel, impulsive bastard, for example ? Is it just because the notion of a loving God makes you feel good, or what ?

[Bro Dave]

Mankind has use God to justify any and every evil thing imaginable. God knows us each, and approaches us in whatever way is best. Still, it is for us to accept. God is not pushy. We have literally an eternity to get it right! For me, a good "filter" is this, "If it is not loving, God did not ask for it to be done". That's how I know who's wrong.

Ok, so you have this pre-conceived notion that God must be loving and patient; therefore, any non-loving or non-patient God is false.

So... how did you arrive at this notion ? Why do you think it's true ? Why couldn't God be a cruel, impulsive bastard, for example ? Is it just because the notion of a loving God makes you feel good, or what ?

“notion”? A “notion” is something about which one has little or no knowledge or personal experience. My experience and my knowledge both have revealed to me a Loving God, who understands imperfection, but never causes the cruelty and pain you are referring to. What need would an INFINITE God have of any of those negative animal based emotions? No, the reason we see and experience painful feedback, is to provide a way to know whether we are moving toward Him or away from Him. It all comes back to the necessity of having free will, and therefore being allowed to make wrong choices, while being encouraged not to do so. We are not robots. We get to choose; and God is there to suggest and support us when we ask. And, when we make poor choices, He is there to help us pick up the pieces, and go on from there. He does not judge us for bad choices. God is only concerned with our intent, which fortunately for us, he knows completely.

Bro Dave

[bernee51]

“notion”? A “notion” is something about which one has little or no knowledge or personal experience.

According to my dictionary Bro Dave a notion is a "belief or opinion", or it could be a "fanciful whim".

My experience and my knowledge both have revealed to me a Loving God,...

My personal 'notion'...and this is whay you are talking about i.e. 'subjective personal' not 'general objective', is that there is no evidence of any god, loving or otherwise. My experience, through meditation and study, has led me to believe, as I have stated elswhere, that all else, other than the fact we humans have a specific level of consciousness that gives us an inate knowledge of what has been called 'the sacred', is a construct. We observe the world around us and see the imperfection and as 'the sacred' cannot be imperfect we manufacture belief systems to accommodate this knowledge.

...who understands imperfection, but never causes the cruelty and pain you are referring to. What need would an INFINITE God have of any of those negative animal based emotions?

In this case, what need is there for an INFINITE god?

No, the reason we see and experience painful feedback, is to provide a way to know whether we are moving toward Him or away from Him.

The reason we experience this 'painful feedback' is because of our attachment to the illusion of the sense of an individual self. Understanding this allows experience of life without (or at least hopefully minimizing) the pain of tha attachment.

The aim is to live joyfully amonsgt the suffering of the world.

[Bro Dave]

The aim is to live joyfully amonsgt the suffering of the world.

Hmmm, I thought of you as more of an humanitarian than that seems to indicate...

Bro Dave

[palmera]

What need would an INFINITE God have of any of those negative animal based emotions?

What need would such a god need of any positive emotions like love? If G-d is infinite, G-d would have no needs, no reason to love, no reason to do anything, create anything, or love/hate anything. If G-d's "needs" are beyond our understanding (implied in the infinity of G-d) then how do we justify making or prove any claims about what G-d wants or desires?

[bernee51]

The aim is to live joyfully amonsgt the suffering of the world.

Hmmm, I thought of you as more of an humanitarian than that seems to indicate...

Bro Dave

How does my statement deny the possibility of a humanitarian outlook? I can joyfully work towards the alleviation of suffering can I not?

[Bro Dave]

The aim is to live joyfully amonsgt the suffering of the world.

Hmmm, I thought of you as more of an humanitarian than that seems to indicate...

Bro Dave

How does my statement deny the possibility of a humanitarian outlook? I can joyfully work towards the alleviation of suffering can I not?

Yes by brother, and I am sure that you do.

Peace!

Bro Dave

[Bro Dave]

What need would an INFINITE God have of any of those negative animal based emotions?

What need would such a god need of any positive emotions like love? If G-d is infinite, G-d would have no needs, no reason to love, no reason to do anything, create anything, or love/hate anything. If G-d's "needs" are beyond our understanding (implied in the infinity of G-d) then how do we justify making or prove any claims about what G-d wants or desires?

God, being INFINITE, can never experience being imperfect The growth through experiences to knowledge, and on to wisdom while becoming perfect, is our role. God has invited us an an eternal advernture with Him!

Enjoy!

Bro Dave

[palmera]

Bro Dave wrote:

God, being INFINITE, can never experience being imperfect The growth through experiences to knowledge, and on to wisdom while becoming perfect, is our role. God has invited us an an eternal advernture with Him!

But if G-d is infinite what could possibly compel said being to invite us on an eternal adventure? G-d wouldn't need company, or a partner, or love, or slaves, or adventure... if G-d is infinite.