How Many One Gods can there be?

Argue for and against religions and philosophies which are not Christian

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McCulloch
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How Many One Gods can there be?

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

In another thread
Nirvana-Eld wrote:Ok. If someone believes in a Creator God, then they are in accordance with every (real) religion.
Bugmaster wrote:Not really. How many gods are there ? Are the gods all-powerful ? Do they thirst for the blood of unbelievers ? What do the gods command us to do ? All of the major religions that we have today (yes, including Christianity, Judaism and Islam) disagree on these important points, and on many others as well.

This raises a question that, I think deserves its own discussion.

Do the major monotheist religions believe different things about the same god or do they believe in different gods?

For the moment let's discuss Judaism, Islam and the many flavours of Christianity and, if you will, Christian inspired religions. Let's ignore the claim made by some that trinitarian Christians are not monotheists, since they by their own peculiar twist of logic claim that they are monotheists.

On the one hand, every monotheist religion, by definition, makes the claim that there is only one god. Therefore, if someone not of that religion, makes reference to god, claiming as well, that there is one god, then it seems reasonable that they must be talking about the same god. Also, historically, the Christians claim that their god is identical to the god of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and David. Islam claims that their Allah is the same god as the Christian's.

On the other hand, YHWH, the Christian's Triune god and Allah, bear very little resemblance to each other.
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Post #31

Post by Bro Dave »

palmera wrote: Bro Dave wrote:
God, being INFINITE, can never experience being imperfect The growth through experiences to knowledge, and on to wisdom while becoming perfect, is our role. God has invited us an an eternal advernture with Him!
But if G-d is infinite what could possibly compel said being to invite us on an eternal adventure? G-d wouldn't need company, or a partner, or love, or slaves, or adventure... if G-d is infinite.
I think even using limited mortal logic, its is reasonable for God to address the one area unavailable to Him; The experience of growth. Not only that, being the source of all Love, is is also reasonable to want to share that Love with beings free to choose to return that love of their own free will. Two good reasons for God to"bother" with US! ;)

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Post #32

Post by palmera »

Bro Dave wrote
I think even using limited mortal logic, its is reasonable for God to address the one area unavailable to Him; The experience of growth. Not only that, being the source of all Love, is is also reasonable to want to share that Love with beings free to choose to return that love of their own free will. Two good reasons for God to"bother" with US!
Ok. But, again, these terms (growth, love, and want) do not apply to an infinite being. An infinite being would be want of nothing, for the human crutch of desire would be as naught to such a being. I can think of only one thing that would impel an infinite being to do anything- as proposed in a thought experiment: Suicide. Can the infinite cease to exist? Surely, this alone would compel an infinite being to act- to know the one piece of information left- can G-d kill G-d?
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Post #33

Post by Bro Dave »

palmera wrote: Bro Dave wrote
I think even using limited mortal logic, its is reasonable for God to address the one area unavailable to Him; The experience of growth. Not only that, being the source of all Love, is is also reasonable to want to share that Love with beings free to choose to return that love of their own free will. Two good reasons for God to "bother" with US!
Ok. But, again, these terms (growth, love, and want) do not apply to an infinite being. An infinite being would be want of nothing, for the human crutch of desire would be as naught to such a being. I can think of only one thing that would impel an infinite being to do anything- as proposed in a thought experiment: Suicide. Can the infinite cease to exist? Surely, this alone would compel an infinite being to act- to know the one piece of information left- can G-d kill G-d?
I must say I am impressed! You, with only a tiny finite mind, are capable of knowing not only the intentions of an INFINITE mind, but also imply limitations you imagine.

God relates to us in terms that we have experienced, and therefore comprehend, which hardly places any imitations on Him. For you to conclude that “suicide” is in any way a “reasonable” course of action, tells me more about you than it does about God. ;)

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Post #34

Post by palmera »

palmera wrote:
Ok. But, again, these terms (growth, love, and want) do not apply to an infinite being. An infinite being would be want of nothing, for the human crutch of desire would be as naught to such a being. I can think of only one thing that would impel an infinite being to do anything- as proposed in a thought experiment: Suicide. Can the infinite cease to exist? Surely, this alone would compel an infinite being to act- to know the one piece of information left- can G-d kill G-d?
Bro Dave wrote:
I must say I am impressed! You, with only a tiny finite mind, are capable of knowing not only the intentions of an INFINITE mind, but also imply limitations you imagine.

Bro Dave
Though I never claimed to know the intentions of an infinite G-d, I did posit [using the divine gift of logic] what intentions would be superfluous to an infinite being by virtue of the very nature of such a being. The limitations of G-d have thus far come only from your assertions about the ways G-d relates to humans. My intentions were to suggest that if G-d is infinite, anthropomorphic qualities we place on such a being are limiting factors; and, that such anthropocentric concepts speak about how we understand and conceive of G-d, not about the reality of G-d and how G-d "relates" to humans.
God relates to us in terms that we have experienced, and therefore comprehend, which hardly places any imitations on Him. For you to conclude that “suicide” is in any way a “reasonable” course of action, tells me more about you than it does about God.
"Reasonable" to who? I am curious, what do my suggestion tell you about me?
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Post #35

Post by Bro Dave »

Bro Dave wrote:For you to conclude that “suicide” is in any way a “reasonable” course of action, tells me more about you than it does about God.
palmera wrote: "Reasonable" to who? I am curious, what do my suggestion tell you about me?
Suicide is a human idea. It’s our feeble way of trying to avoid the unpleasantries that our lives bring. So, your projecting that escape mechanism onto God, seems to suggest a preoccupation on your part… or maybe not. ;)

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Post #36

Post by palmera »

So, your projecting that escape mechanism onto God, seems to suggest a preoccupation on your part… or maybe not.
Would it be an escape mechanism for an infinite being though? The thought experiment I referred to is God's Debris by Scott Adams (yes, the creator of Dilbert) in which he posits that the only motivation for the infinite would be to know the void- can G-d cease to be? Anyway, it's a well written and purposefully flawed thought experiment which will really blow your hair back. Take a look it's worth reading, esp. with the author's challenge to find what's wrong with his argument.

Though suicide is certainly a human form of escape (in some cases), the infinite and the void are very useful ways for considering the nature of the universe, and I suggest (as have many others) thinking about G-d as we have done here. On the scale of the infinite suicide isn't about escape but about attaining knowledge, experiencing the ultimate paradox, which otherwise could not be known or experienced. The lack of existence for an infinite being- would it be a black hole, a total nullification of being, or an explosion? Anyway, just a fun idea to ponder.
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Post #37

Post by Wyvern »

Kinda strange but reading this thread I couldn't help but be reminded of either the native american coyote god or the multitude of avatars in hinduism. Coyote in being the trickster(ala Loki) or Rhama( the hindu creator diety, not personally aware of a equivalent trickster in the hindu pantheon)

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