Reincarnation is deception!

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PetriFB
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Reincarnation is deception!

Post #1

Post by PetriFB »

If we start to examine basic views of the New Age movement and the Oriental religions, it is good to start from reincarnation. This doctrine is namely in the background almost in all teaching of the New age movement and it is also the basic belief of the Oriental religions, in other words of Hinduism and Buddhism. About its commonness has been estimated, that about 25 % of people in the western countries believes in it, but in India and other countries of Asia, where is the origin of this doctrine, the percentage is naturally much bigger. There, in other words mainly in India and other countries of Asia has been taught this doctrine already at least for 2000 years, and obviously it was accepted generally about 300 before Christ, not just before it.

When it is a question of reincarnation, it in any case is based on the fact, that our life is believed to be continuous circulation. Its is believed to be continuous circulation, so that each person is born on the earth again and again and again, and gets a new incarnation always according to that, how he has lived in his former life. All that bad, what happens to us today, should only be consequence of the earlier happenings, and that we must now reap it, what we have sown earlier. Only if we experience enlightenment and at the same time are freed from the circulation, in other words we will achieve moksha, so this circulation does not continue eternally. (However in the western view achieving of moksha is not very important. Instead of that, in the western world reincarnation is seen in positive light, in other words mainly as a possibility to develop and to grow spiritually. It hasn't similar negative nuance to generally in east.)

But what can we think about reincarnation; is it really true or not, and is it worth while to believe? We try to search for answer to this matter in this writing.

http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/Reincarnation

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McCulloch
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Post #31

Post by McCulloch »

methylatedghosts wrote:Although, I don't believe karma from the lifetime before affects anything in your current life. I believe you start with a clean slate.
So let me get this straight. You believe that we may have a previous life. We almost always don't remember the events of these previous lives and we don't get any kind of karma from previous lives, so what are these lives to us?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #32

Post by methylatedghosts »

McCulloch wrote:So let me get this straight. You believe that we may have a previous life. We almost always don't remember the events of these previous lives and we don't get any kind of karma from previous lives, so what are these lives to us?
Another chance - if you will, new experiences. Like, say in the previous life you were a serial killer and killed 70 people, what reason would there be to affect this life? In this life, you could become a doctor or a spiritual leader etc. YOU don't remember anything of the previous lives so that you can experience anew. Your soul does, and the experiences from all your life allow you soul to know who and what it is.
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Post #33

Post by McCulloch »

McCulloch wrote:So let me get this straight. You believe that we may have a previous life. We almost always don't remember the events of these previous lives and we don't get any kind of karma from previous lives, so what are these lives to us?
methylatedghosts wrote:Another chance - if you will, new experiences. Like, say in the previous life you were a serial killer and killed 70 people, what reason would there be to affect this life? In this life, you could become a doctor or a spiritual leader etc. YOU don't remember anything of the previous lives so that you can experience anew. Your soul does, and the experiences from all your life allow you soul to know who and what it is.
But if YOU don't remember anything of the previous lives, how were the previous lives experienced by YOU. YOU don't remember but your soul does? What does that mean? Isn't your soul supposed to be the essence of who you are?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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methylatedghosts
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Post #34

Post by methylatedghosts »

McCulloch wrote:
McCulloch wrote:So let me get this straight. You believe that we may have a previous life. We almost always don't remember the events of these previous lives and we don't get any kind of karma from previous lives, so what are these lives to us?
methylatedghosts wrote:Another chance - if you will, new experiences. Like, say in the previous life you were a serial killer and killed 70 people, what reason would there be to affect this life? In this life, you could become a doctor or a spiritual leader etc. YOU don't remember anything of the previous lives so that you can experience anew. Your soul does, and the experiences from all your life allow you soul to know who and what it is.
But if YOU don't remember anything of the previous lives, how were the previous lives experienced by YOU. YOU don't remember but your soul does? What does that mean? Isn't your soul supposed to be the essence of who you are?
The soul is god. At least, a portion of the whole. When you pray to god/communicate with god, you are doing so with yourself. When I say YOU, I am talking about the physical being. Your soul takes the experiences from all lives. The previous lives were experienced by "another you" in a different time. Your soul is still the same as the first life as this life, only has experienced more.
Ye are Gods

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Post #35

Post by McCulloch »

methylatedghosts wrote:The soul is god. At least, a portion of the whole. When you pray to god/communicate with god, you are doing so with yourself. When I say YOU, I am talking about the physical being. Your soul takes the experiences from all lives. The previous lives were experienced by "another you" in a different time. Your soul is still the same as the first life as this life, only has experienced more.
So what is the difference between another you and another person who is (was) not you. Each has (or should it be is?) a soul, each cannot benefit from or remember a previous incarnation.
And what takes this from being a fanciful speculation to a testable hypothesis?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #36

Post by methylatedghosts »

McCulloch wrote:
methylatedghosts wrote:The soul is god. At least, a portion of the whole. When you pray to god/communicate with god, you are doing so with yourself. When I say YOU, I am talking about the physical being. Your soul takes the experiences from all lives. The previous lives were experienced by "another you" in a different time. Your soul is still the same as the first life as this life, only has experienced more.
So what is the difference between another you and another person who is (was) not you. Each has (or should it be is?) a soul, each cannot benefit from or remember a previous incarnation.
And what takes this from being a fanciful speculation to a testable hypothesis?
In reality, this isn't really a testible hypothesis. I'd reccomend you read "Many lives, Many masters" by Dr Brian Weiss - a recognised psychiatrist. Even though you may disagree, you could take those points and post debates and questions here

And I am not sure how or why we cannot benefit from another souls experiences - as we are all part of the same whole. Other than to say our souls are parts of this whole but essentially separated from it - like a pie cut into pieces and put onto differen plates. Each of these pie pieces are still parts of the whole - only separated, and each pie piece "has a different experience".
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Re: Reincarnation is deception!

Post #37

Post by Mikko »

PetriFB wrote:If we start to examine basic views of the New Age movement and the Oriental religions, it is good to start from reincarnation. This doctrine is namely in the background almost in all teaching of the New age movement and it is also the basic belief of the Oriental religions, in other words of Hinduism and Buddhism. About its commonness has been estimated, that about 25 % of people in the western countries believes in it, but in India and other countries of Asia, where is the origin of this doctrine, the percentage is naturally much bigger. There, in other words mainly in India and other countries of Asia has been taught this doctrine already at least for 2000 years, and obviously it was accepted generally about 300 before Christ, not just before it.

When it is a question of reincarnation, it in any case is based on the fact, that our life is believed to be continuous circulation. Its is believed to be continuous circulation, so that each person is born on the earth again and again and again, and gets a new incarnation always according to that, how he has lived in his former life. All that bad, what happens to us today, should only be consequence of the earlier happenings, and that we must now reap it, what we have sown earlier. Only if we experience enlightenment and at the same time are freed from the circulation, in other words we will achieve moksha, so this circulation does not continue eternally. (However in the western view achieving of moksha is not very important. Instead of that, in the western world reincarnation is seen in positive light, in other words mainly as a possibility to develop and to grow spiritually. It hasn't similar negative nuance to generally in east.)

But what can we think about reincarnation; is it really true or not, and is it worth while to believe? We try to search for answer to this matter in this writing.

http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/Reincarnation
Sorry, but the fact that the Bible doesn't support it doesn't mean it's deception. The same can be said of many Biblical claims, depending on the angle from which one is approaching the subject. Jews, for example, assert that the claims of the New Testament are deception. ;)
Last edited by Mikko on Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #38

Post by Mikko »

methylatedghosts wrote:In reality, this isn't really a testible hypothesis. I'd reccomend you read "Many lives, Many masters" by Dr Brian Weiss - a recognised psychiatrist. Even though you may disagree, you could take those points and post debates and questions here



That's an excellent suggestion.

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Post #39

Post by Angry_Pacifist »

Reincarnation in eastern religions tends to imply an actual physical rebirth after death, quite possibly to one of the 5 realms - God, Human, Animal, Preta(hungry ghost) or Hell. This concept of reincarnation is quite common among traditional buddhist and brahmanian religious schools. Rebirth, however, can be interpreted differently. My form of buddhism uses the principle of spiritual rebirth. I do not believe in a literal rebirth, rather a metaphorical one.

The 5 realms are interpreted as the current state of one's life. For instance, one living in the hell realm will be going through a time of great turmoil in their life and are spiritually lost, whereas someone residing in the god realm will have reached spiritual fulfilment. In this instance, spiritual state is essentially psychological wellbeing.

As for literal rebirth, i will treat it the same way i do the concept of god - i'll believe it if/when i see it.
A zen student walks up to a hot dog vendor and says, "Make me one with everything."

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Post #40

Post by spiritletter »

There is no way of knowing what will happen when you die. The various versions of afterlife in all the religions I've read have a certain allegorical or didactic appeal, but I see them as metaphors, like most other things in religion.

I prefer to focus on the life I'm living and perhaps the afterlife, whatever it is, will take care of itself.

That said, I have a strong faith.

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