Did Jesus die on the Cross?

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paarsurrey1
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Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #1

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Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Jesus did not die on the Cross. Quran mentions very clearly that Jesus died a natural death:
[3:55] And they planned, and Allah also planned; and Allah is the Best of planners.
[3:56] When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 3&verse=55

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Reference: Post 8 thread "Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross? "

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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

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paarsurrey1 wrote: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Jesus did not die on the Cross. Quran mentions very clearly that Jesus died a natural death:
[3:55] And they planned, and Allah also planned; and Allah is the Best of planners.
[3:56] When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
It is debatable as to whatever is meant by a natural death, but that aside then I agree that Jesus did not die on the cross, but He surely did die later from the massive wounds inflicted during the crucifixion.

The Gospels includes plenty of evidence that Jesus was resuscitated, and in the 1st century being resuscitated is quite close enough to being a resurrection.

Later according to the book of Acts Jesus died after 40 days (taken into heaven) and living 40 days after being brutalized in the crucifixion is another miracle.

We can view that Jesus at last died of exhaustion (or from complications) which would thereby be called a natural death.

I have long believed that God sent Muhammad and the Holy Qur'an after Christianity had fallen way off track.
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #3

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JP Cusick wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Jesus did not die on the Cross. Quran mentions very clearly that Jesus died a natural death:
[3:55] And they planned, and Allah also planned; and Allah is the Best of planners.
[3:56] When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
It is debatable as to whatever is meant by a natural death, but that aside then I agree that Jesus did not die on the cross, but He surely did die later from the massive wounds inflicted during the crucifixion.

The Gospels includes plenty of evidence that Jesus was resuscitated, and in the 1st century being resuscitated is quite close enough to being a resurrection.

Later according to the book of Acts Jesus died after 40 days (taken into heaven) and living 40 days after being brutalized in the crucifixion is another miracle.

We can view that Jesus at last died of exhaustion (or from complications) which would thereby be called a natural death.

I have long believed that God sent Muhammad and the Holy Qur'an after Christianity had fallen way off track.
I agree that Jesus did not die on the cross
Thanks for agreeing that Jesus did not die on the Cross, there are many clues for that in the Gospels, agreeing that Jesus got resuscitated when delivered from the Cross, agreeing that Muhammad was truthful person sent by God, agreeing that Quran is the truthful Word of God.
Jesus died much later or years later from the period of 40 days when Jesus was delivered from the Cross.
I like your post.
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Post #4

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It is further to add some verses of Quran regarding Jesus:

[3:46] When the angels said, ‘O Mary, Allah gives thee glad tidings of a word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;
[3:47] ‘And he shall speak to the people in the cradle and when of middle age*, and he shall be of the righteous.’
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 3&verse=46

*Middle age:
According to the Oxford English Dictionary middle age is between 45 and 65:[2] "The period between early adulthood and old age, usually considered as the years from about 45 to 65." The US Census lists the category middle age from 45 to 65. Merriam-Webster list middle age from 45 to 64,[3] while prominent psychologist Erik Erikson saw it starting a little earlier and defines middle adulthood as between 40 and 65. The Collins English Dictionary, list it between the ages of 40 and 60.[4] and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - the standard diagnostic manual of the American Psychiatric Association - used to define middle age as 40 to 60, but as of DSM-IV (1994) revised the definition upwards to 45 to 65.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_age
So Jesus died years later after the event of Crucifixion in which he survived.

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Re: Response:

Post #5

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paarsurrey1 wrote: It is further to add some verses of Quran regarding Jesus:

[3:46] When the angels said, ‘O Mary, Allah gives thee glad tidings of a word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;
[3:47] ‘And he shall speak to the people in the cradle and when of middle age*, and he shall be of the righteous.’
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 3&verse=46

*Middle age:

So Jesus died years later after the event of Crucifixion in which he survived.
Middle age of today is much higher than middle age in the past.

For Jesus to live or die at middle age in the first century would be under 35 years old.

Life expectancy was closer to 40 at best, and to live to 60 was extraordinary.

To accept that Jesus lived 40 days after the crucifixion is realistic based on His injuries, and the 40 days are supported by the scripture in Acts 1:3

It is misrepresenting the Holy Qur'an to give it more meaning than what it really declares.
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Re: Response:

Post #6

Post by paarsurrey1 »

JP Cusick wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote: It is further to add some verses of Quran regarding Jesus:

[3:46] When the angels said, ‘O Mary, Allah gives thee glad tidings of a word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;
[3:47] ‘And he shall speak to the people in the cradle and when of middle age*, and he shall be of the righteous.’
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 3&verse=46

*Middle age:

So Jesus died years later after the event of Crucifixion in which he survived.
Middle age of today is much higher than middle age in the past.

For Jesus to live or die at middle age in the first century would be under 35 years old.

Life expectancy was closer to 40 at best, and to live to 60 was extraordinary.

To accept that Jesus lived 40 days after the crucifixion is realistic based on His injuries, and the 40 days are supported by the scripture in Acts 1:3

It is misrepresenting the Holy Qur'an to give it more meaning than what it really declares.
Quran mentions the word "كَهْلًا" "kahlan" which has been translated as middle age.
Shakir has translated it like thus:
Shakir: And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones.

One may like to investigate further to the meaning of the Arabic root word "كهل" "k-h-l":
Elderly
كهل
adjective
~Being past middle age and approaching old age; rather old. See Usage Note at old.
~Of, relating to, or characteristic of older persons or life in later years.
~An elderly person.
~Older people considered as a group. Often used with the: special recreational programs for the elderly.
from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition
http://www.arabicenglishdictionary.org/ ... 9%87%D9%84
Please
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Re: Response:

Post #7

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paarsurrey1 wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote: [3:47] ‘And he shall speak to the people in the cradle and when of middle age*, and he shall be of the righteous.’
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 3&verse=46

*Middle age:
Shakir has translated it like thus:
Shakir: And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones.

One may like to investigate further to the meaning of the Arabic root word "كهل" "k-
~Of, relating to, or characteristic of older persons or life in later years.
~An elderly person.
First you quote and highlight "middle age" and now you claim "old age" and yet neither of these are specific.

In the 1st century then an elderly person would have been 30 years old, and for some cases then 30 is old age.

The Bible only tells that Jesus was baptized around 30 years old, Luke 3:23, and so yes Jesus could have been much older at that time.

Jesus could have been 53 or 40 or any age when He was crucified? but around the age of 33 - 38 seems more likely.

The Holy Qur'an is right about Jesus being a messenger and a Prophet and the Messiah, so there is no need to nit-pick about the age of Jesus at any given time.
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #8

Post by paarsurrey1 »

JP Cusick wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Jesus did not die on the Cross. Quran mentions very clearly that Jesus died a natural death:
[3:55] And they planned, and Allah also planned; and Allah is the Best of planners.
[3:56] When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
It is debatable as to whatever is meant by a natural death, but that aside then I agree that Jesus did not die on the cross, but He surely did die later from the massive wounds inflicted during the crucifixion.

The Gospels includes plenty of evidence that Jesus was resuscitated, and in the 1st century being resuscitated is quite close enough to being a resurrection.

Later according to the book of Acts Jesus died after 40 days (taken into heaven) and living 40 days after being brutalized in the crucifixion is another miracle.

We can view that Jesus at last died of exhaustion (or from complications) which would thereby be called a natural death.

I have long believed that God sent Muhammad and the Holy Qur'an after Christianity had fallen way off track.
We can view that Jesus at last died of exhaustion (or from complications)
Please elaborate. What exaustion or complication of what, please?
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #9

Post by JP Cusick »

paarsurrey1 wrote:
JP Cusick wrote: We can view that Jesus at last died of exhaustion (or from complications)
Please elaborate. What exaustion or complication of what, please?
I do not see any complication as to why you can not figure that out your self, especially when you started this thread about Jesus being crucified.

The answer:

The exhaustion and other complications is in reference to Jesus being crucified - so that His body had to be severely wounded and damaged by that experience, and then by 40 days thereafter He would die from those massive injuries.

The idea that any person can be crucified and survive is a big miracle indeed and I accept that as the truth, but after that He was still massively injured without any modern medicine, as like having no antibiotics or pain medicine or blood transfusion or even to be put into a medical facility to care for Him was just not available.

The Bible declares that Jesus died 40 days after the cross (went up to heaven) so to live 40 days would have been a long time in severe pain and agony which is not realistic to last for many years later.
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #10

Post by paarsurrey1 »

JP Cusick wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote:
JP Cusick wrote: We can view that Jesus at last died of exhaustion (or from complications)
Please elaborate. What exaustion or complication of what, please?
I do not see any complication as to why you can not figure that out your self, especially when you started this thread about Jesus being crucified.

The answer:

The exhaustion and other complications is in reference to Jesus being crucified - so that His body had to be severely wounded and damaged by that experience, and then by 40 days thereafter He would die from those massive injuries.

The idea that any person can be crucified and survive is a big miracle indeed and I accept that as the truth, but after that He was still massively injured without any modern medicine, as like having no antibiotics or pain medicine or blood transfusion or even to be put into a medical facility to care for Him was just not available.

The Bible declares that Jesus died 40 days after the cross (went up to heaven) so to live 40 days would have been a long time in severe pain and agony which is not realistic to last for many years later.
The Bible declares that Jesus died 40 days after the cross (went up to heaven)
I get your point that you mean from going to heaven as Jesus having died after 40 days of the event of crucifixion.
But it is neither supported by Bible nor by Quran. Is it?
We both agree that Jesus did not die on the Cross, he was delivered alive from the Cross in near-dead position.Right, please?
With the same type of injuries, people have lived longer*, and Jesus was a strong and sturdy person.
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*Christians NAILED to crosses in gruesome Good Friday re-enactment of Jesus's death in the Philippines

Ruben Enaje, a painter, 51, took part in the crucifixions for the 26th time today. He began taking part in the annual event to give thanks after he survived falling from a building.
'This is not just for fun or for money. This is a calling,' he told Filipino website Tempo.
He added that despite the crucifixions being condemned he still took part because the Church 'stay at home during Good Friday instead of reaching out to penitents to explain their side'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4qnYZJioN
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