Did Jesus die on the Cross?

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paarsurrey1
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Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #1

Post by paarsurrey1 »

Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Jesus did not die on the Cross. Quran mentions very clearly that Jesus died a natural death:
[3:55] And they planned, and Allah also planned; and Allah is the Best of planners.
[3:56] When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 3&verse=55

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Reference: Post 8 thread "Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross? "

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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #11

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paarsurrey1 wrote: I get your point that you mean from going to heaven as Jesus having died after 40 days of the event of crucifixion.
But it is neither supported by Bible nor by Quran. Is it?
I already told where the 40 days are declared, but here it is again:

Link text here in verse 3 = Acts 1:3

QUOTE: " ... he shewed himself alive after his passion ... being seen of them forty days ... " KJV
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #12

Post by paarsurrey1 »

JP Cusick wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote: I get your point that you mean from going to heaven as Jesus having died after 40 days of the event of crucifixion.
But it is neither supported by Bible nor by Quran. Is it?
I already told where the 40 days are declared, but here it is again:

Link text here in verse 3 = Acts 1:3

QUOTE: " ... he shewed himself alive after his passion ... being seen of them forty days ... " KJV
It doesn't say that Jesus died on the fortieth day after he was put on the Cross and delivered from it. One's argument, if I have missed to find it.

Usually Christians say that Jesus died on the Cross and was delivered from the Cross having died. While I believe that Jesus was delivered from the Cross in the near-dead position as was Jonah in the belly of the fish in near-dead position, proverbially, if one survives in such a position it is said that one has become alive from the dead. It does not mean clinically dead.
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #13

Post by paarsurrey1 »

JP Cusick wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote:
JP Cusick wrote: We can view that Jesus at last died of exhaustion (or from complications)
Please elaborate. What exaustion or complication of what, please?
I do not see any complication as to why you can not figure that out your self, especially when you started this thread about Jesus being crucified.

The answer:

The exhaustion and other complications is in reference to Jesus being crucified - so that His body had to be severely wounded and damaged by that experience, and then by 40 days thereafter He would die from those massive injuries.

The idea that any person can be crucified and survive is a big miracle indeed and I accept that as the truth, but after that He was still massively injured without any modern medicine, as like having no antibiotics or pain medicine or blood transfusion or even to be put into a medical facility to care for Him was just not available.

The Bible declares that Jesus died 40 days after the cross (went up to heaven) so to live 40 days would have been a long time in severe pain and agony which is not realistic to last for many years later.
blood transfusion
Blood transfusion was not needed. There was not much blood loss.
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #14

Post by paarsurrey1 »

JP Cusick wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote:
JP Cusick wrote: We can view that Jesus at last died of exhaustion (or from complications)
Please elaborate. What exaustion or complication of what, please?
I do not see any complication as to why you can not figure that out your self, especially when you started this thread about Jesus being crucified.

The answer:

The exhaustion and other complications is in reference to Jesus being crucified - so that His body had to be severely wounded and damaged by that experience, and then by 40 days thereafter He would die from those massive injuries.

The idea that any person can be crucified and survive is a big miracle indeed and I accept that as the truth, but after that He was still massively injured without any modern medicine, as like having no antibiotics or pain medicine or blood transfusion or even to be put into a medical facility to care for Him was just not available.

The Bible declares that Jesus died 40 days after the cross (went up to heaven) so to live 40 days would have been a long time in severe pain and agony which is not realistic to last for many years later.
as like having no antibiotics or pain medicine
Yes. But Jesus was a good physician. He had told his trusted friends as to what to do if he is subjected to such injuries. We get its clue from the Gospels when Nicodemus, physician, and friend of Jesus, brought an unusual quantity of Aloe and Myrrh that do wonders in such type of injuries:

John 19:38-40
38Later on, Joseph of Arimathea, who was a disciple of Jesus (but secretly for fear of the Jews), asked Pilate’s permission to take away the body of Jesus. Pilate granted it, so he came and removed His body. 39Nicodemus, who had previously come to Jesus at night, also brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. 40They took the body of Jesus and wrapped it in linen cloths with the spices,
http://biblehub.com/john/19-39.htm

That tells us as to how Jesus was treated in the tomb he was placed after having delivered from the Cross in near-dead position, yet very much alive. In some days he was able to walk and when confident enough he traveled to Galilee. Right, please?
Jesus did not die on the fortieth day after Crucification.
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #15

Post by JP Cusick »

paarsurrey1 wrote: Jesus did not die on the fortieth day after Crucification.
The Bible tells us that Jesus died (went up to heaven) 40 days after the crucifixion.

See here in Acts 1:3-9

He survived the cross but He was still severely injured, so 40 days is a long time in pain before He dies, and that settles it for me.
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

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Post by paarsurrey1 »

JP Cusick wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote: Jesus did not die on the fortieth day after Crucification.
The Bible tells us that Jesus died (went up to heaven) 40 days after the crucifixion.

See here in Acts 1:3-9

He survived the cross but He was still severely injured, so 40 days is a long time in pain before He dies, and that settles it for me.
Jesus died (went up to heaven)
Is it a proverb "going to heaven" meaning one is dead?
If yes, in what language, or it is a usage of Bible please?
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #17

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paarsurrey1 wrote:
JP Cusick wrote: Jesus died (went up to heaven)
Is it a proverb "going to heaven" meaning one is dead?
If yes, in what language, or it is a usage of Bible please?
It is called a "euphemism", link to dictionary = HERE.

It is a nicer way of communicating to say that Jesus was taken up in the clouds rather than saying that He was to be buried in a tomb.

And it is not really a lie because many people believe that a dead person's soul goes up as their dead body goes down.

When we go to most Christian funerals then the Priest or Minister will say that the deceased person has gone to Heaven which is to make their family loved ones to feel better.

Plus in the book of Acts 1:3-9 then that is the final reference to Jesus as a living person.
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #18

Post by tam »

Peace to you paarsurrey!

paarsurrey1 wrote: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Jesus did not die on the Cross. Quran mentions very clearly that Jesus died a natural death:
[3:55] And they planned, and Allah also planned; and Allah is the Best of planners.
[3:56] When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 3&verse=55

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_____________
Reference: Post 8 thread "Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross? "

I do not see anything in this verse that states Christ could not have died on the cross.

Natural death meaning death of the natural body (this flesh with its blood).


Paul also understood this, and spoke of our bodies as the natural (earthly) body:

"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body." 1Corinth 15:42-44


Perhaps the scribe or translator of this particular verse in the Quran also understood that the natural death meant death of the natural body - and later that understanding was lost? Or perhaps the scribes and teachers did not understand this even at the start?

Either way, this verse from the Quran does not contradict Christ having died on the cross. Because His death was a natural physical death. And all men die a natural - physical - death. (Until Christ returns at least)



Peace again to you and to your household!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #19

Post by paarsurrey1 »

JP Cusick wrote:
paarsurrey1 wrote:
JP Cusick wrote: Jesus died (went up to heaven)
Is it a proverb "going to heaven" meaning one is dead?
If yes, in what language, or it is a usage of Bible please?
It is called a "euphemism", link to dictionary = HERE.

It is a nicer way of communicating to say that Jesus was taken up in the clouds rather than saying that He was to be buried in a tomb.

And it is not really a lie because many people believe that a dead person's soul goes up as their dead body goes down.

When we go to most Christian funerals then the Priest or Minister will say that the deceased person has gone to Heaven which is to make their family loved ones to feel better.

Plus in the book of Acts 1:3-9 then that is the final reference to Jesus as a living person.
Acts 1:9
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
When Jesus was to depart from his friends from Galilee, as is evident, they were standing in the foot of the hill. Jesus went up the path on the hill, the top of the hill was cloudy, and Jesus got down on the path that lead to the other side of the hill, he did not disclose plans of his journey to them for secrecy.
Jesus' friends mistook it as Jesus had gone to the skies or heaven. It could be a plan to maintain secrecy.
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Re: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Post #20

Post by paarsurrey1 »

tam wrote: Peace to you paarsurrey!

paarsurrey1 wrote: Did Jesus die on the Cross?

Jesus did not die on the Cross. Quran mentions very clearly that Jesus died a natural death:
[3:55] And they planned, and Allah also planned; and Allah is the Best of planners.
[3:56] When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge between you concerning that wherein you differ.
https://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/s ... 3&verse=55

Regards

_____________
Reference: Post 8 thread "Did Jehovah forsake Jesus to die on the Cross? "

I do not see anything in this verse that states Christ could not have died on the cross.

Natural death meaning death of the natural body (this flesh with its blood).


Paul also understood this, and spoke of our bodies as the natural (earthly) body:

"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body." 1Corinth 15:42-44


Perhaps the scribe or translator of this particular verse in the Quran also understood that the natural death meant death of the natural body - and later that understanding was lost? Or perhaps the scribes and teachers did not understand this even at the start?

Either way, this verse from the Quran does not contradict Christ having died on the cross. Because His death was a natural physical death. And all men die a natural - physical - death. (Until Christ returns at least)

Peace again to you and to your household!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
it is raised in glory
There was no change in the body of Jesus when he came out of grave of Arimathea where he was laid down by his friends for treatment of injuries inflicted on him when he was put on the Cross .
The "glorious body" does not have wounds on it , but Jesus still had fresh wounds which Jesus showed to Thomas.

John 20:24
24 Now Thomas called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.� But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.�
http://biblehub.com/john/20-24.htm

Regards

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