Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

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William
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Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #1

Post by William »

Assuming for argument sake that it is possible for the universe to exist without intelligent design...

In what way is atheism still a better position to assume? In what way is atheism more likely to be truer than Deism?

One of the most popular arguments I ever come across for atheism over any type of theism usually goes along the lines of "if I were god, I would want to interact with my creation rather than stay absent like the Deistic god, and since there is no evidence of GOD existing through interaction, atheism is still the preferred position to have, because the deist GOD is absent anyway, so might as well not exist."

So, in what way is atheism more likely truer than Deism?

Or, are the two positions so similar that they are not even in conflict with each other and may as well be the same thing?

After all, a deist idea of GOD in relation to this universe, might as well not exist. Which is precisely the atheist position on the subject of GOD.

Thoughts?

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #41

Post by Tcg »

Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:05 pm The core tenet of Deism is not that the creator is uninvolved. The core tenet of Deism is that the creator can be discerned by each individual through nature and reason without the aid of special revelation through any individual or group. That's it.
Athetotheist wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:14 pm Deism has no dogmatic beliefs about God/s.
What's the difference between a dogmatic belief and a core tenet?


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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #42

Post by Athetotheist »

Tcg wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:39 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:05 pm The core tenet of Deism is not that the creator is uninvolved. The core tenet of Deism is that the creator can be discerned by each individual through nature and reason without the aid of special revelation through any individual or group. That's it.
Athetotheist wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:14 pm Deism has no dogmatic beliefs about God/s.
What's the difference between a dogmatic belief and a core tenet?
What's the "core tenet" of atheism? Answer my question and you've answered your own.

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #43

Post by Tcg »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:28 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:39 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:05 pm The core tenet of Deism is not that the creator is uninvolved. The core tenet of Deism is that the creator can be discerned by each individual through nature and reason without the aid of special revelation through any individual or group. That's it.
Athetotheist wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:14 pm Deism has no dogmatic beliefs about God/s.
What's the difference between a dogmatic belief and a core tenet?
What's the "core tenet" of atheism? Answer my question and you've answered your own.
We are or at least were discussing deism. Why are you attempting to change the subject?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #44

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to Tcg in post #43
We are or at least were discussing deism. Why are you attempting to change the subject?
In our discussion of Deism, I pointed out that Deism has a core tenet but no dogmatic beliefs. You asked about the difference between them. That's the direction the discussion took.

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #45

Post by Tcg »

Athetotheist wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:50 am [Replying to Tcg in post #43
We are or at least were discussing deism. Why are you attempting to change the subject?
In our discussion of Deism, I pointed out that Deism has a core tenet but no dogmatic beliefs. You asked about the difference between them. That's the direction the discussion took.
Is deism atheism? If not why did the discussion veer off to this question from you?

......"What's the "core tenet" of atheism?"

In any case, the answer is obvious, there is no difference between a "core tenet" and a "dogmatic belief." Deism is based on the dogmatic belief in a "creator" even though there is no need for one.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #46

Post by Athetotheist »

Tcg wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:54 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:50 am [Replying to Tcg in post #43
We are or at least were discussing deism. Why are you attempting to change the subject?
In our discussion of Deism, I pointed out that Deism has a core tenet but no dogmatic beliefs. You asked about the difference between them. That's the direction the discussion took.
Is deism atheism? If not why did the discussion veer off to this question from you?

......"What's the "core tenet" of atheism?"

In any case, the answer is obvious, there is no difference between a "core tenet" and a "dogmatic belief." Deism is based on the dogmatic belief in a "creator" even though there is no need for one.
Deist belief in a creator is a conclusion drawn from observation.

The dogma lurking in atheism----though not necessarily every atheist falls into it----is an unfounded insistance that no creator is needed. Unless you demonstrate that the universe necessitates its own existence, you haven't justified such an assumption.

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #47

Post by Tcg »

Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:27 pm Deist belief in a creator is a conclusion drawn from observation.
It isn't an observation of the creator given that no such observation is possible.

The dogma lurking in atheism----though not necessarily every atheist falls into it----is an unfounded insistance that no creator is needed. Unless you demonstrate that the universe necessitates its own existence, you haven't justified such an assumption.
Nope. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. No dogma involved.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #48

Post by Athetotheist »

Tcg wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:15 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:27 pm Deist belief in a creator is a conclusion drawn from observation.
It isn't an observation of the creator given that no such observation is possible.

The dogma lurking in atheism----though not necessarily every atheist falls into it----is an unfounded insistance that no creator is needed. Unless you demonstrate that the universe necessitates its own existence, you haven't justified such an assumption.
Nope. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. No dogma involved.


Tcg
Then I take it you reject the dogmatic assertion that no creator is needed.

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #49

Post by Tcg »

Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:40 pm
Tcg wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:15 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:27 pm Deist belief in a creator is a conclusion drawn from observation.
It isn't an observation of the creator given that no such observation is possible.

The dogma lurking in atheism----though not necessarily every atheist falls into it----is an unfounded insistance that no creator is needed. Unless you demonstrate that the universe necessitates its own existence, you haven't justified such an assumption.
Nope. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. No dogma involved.


Tcg
Then I take it you reject the dogmatic assertion that no creator is needed.
Certainly, you realize that I am not atheism. Or perhaps not...


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Deism vs. Atheism. Which is more likely true?

Post #50

Post by Athetotheist »

Tcg wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:43 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:40 pm
Tcg wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:15 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:27 pm Deist belief in a creator is a conclusion drawn from observation.
It isn't an observation of the creator given that no such observation is possible.

The dogma lurking in atheism----though not necessarily every atheist falls into it----is an unfounded insistance that no creator is needed. Unless you demonstrate that the universe necessitates its own existence, you haven't justified such an assumption.
Nope. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. No dogma involved.


Tcg
Then I take it you reject the dogmatic assertion that no creator is needed.
Certainly, you realize that I am not atheism. Or perhaps not...
If you're an atheist, then you reject all the dogmatic assertions that atheism rejects----right?

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