Can atheists and believers agree in one religion?

przemeknowicki · Post by **przemeknowicki** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:56 pm

I am thinking of retirement and about summarizing my life experiences in a book on politics and religion. I hope it is not against the rules of this forum to point you to my website because I need it to start the discussion.
Here it is www.freedomgates.net
Please skip the political part and read what I had to say in the religion section.
Tell me please if you have any thoughts, comments, agreements and disagreements. Forums have always been my best inspiration and I hope again to gather more material for my book. I hope to learn from you.

Thank you for participating.

Thomas Orr (my assumed name)

fonso · Post by **fonso** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:53 am

You have a laudable analysis of religion and politics, which will inevitably be met with harsh criticism. Your arguments are fair and acceptable in my opinion. This is an excellent read for those who keep an open mind. Realistically, I do not know if your objectives can be met.

In the '7 commandments' section, to who or what does the term dark forces specifically refer to?

"The community has the right and obligation to protect itself from invasion of the dark forces trying to fight the freedom with ideology of power and enslavement. Seek to separate yourself and the community from the dark forces before they take a foothold and start destroying your freedom. "

przemeknowicki · Post by **przemeknowicki** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:58 am

Hi,
thanks for your opinion. Here is the explanation of the dark forces.
Many Western Democracies while trying to practice the openness and
tolerance in their societies were caught completely unprepared for the
"invasion" of islamic fanatics who used the democratic privilages they
were given to systematically undermine the very fabric of tolerance
and freedom.
My observation is that sometimes the differences between ideologies
of the society and religious fundamentalism simply cannot be reconciled,
or at least we don't know how to overcome them. Building the open and
tolerant culture is not an easy or quick process. Loosing such culture in the name of the idealistic principles is not acceptable and we cannot afford it. Of course, the "dark forces" are not limited to Islam.
You might be interested in reading more here www.freedomgates.co/work/
This is where I collect the notes for the book.
Thomas Orr

przemeknowicki · Post by **przemeknowicki** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:06 am

Hi Fonso,

Sorry, I provided a "broken" link in my previous post. It should be www.freedomgates.net/work/

Continuing my reply I would like to explain that my goal with the website and the book is not to change the society so I am not very concerend with the harsh criticism you anticipate. Not having such a goal in mind gives me the freedom to concentrate on the purity and clarity of my message.
What I want to accomplish is to create an egalitarian movement and attract a small group of people who would help me to express the message with great clarity and detail.

Thomas Orr

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:46 pm

First, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, but please do not say that true Christianity is what you have described. It is not.
Christianity is about believing that Christ died for our sins. Where is your mention of that?

przemeknowicki · Post by **przemeknowicki** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:47 pm

Amadeus wrote:First, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, but please do not say that true Christianity is what you have described. It is not.
Christianity is about believing that Christ died for our sins. Where is your mention of that?

If I had to describe Christianity in one sentence I would say it is to aspire to live the way Christ taught us to live. Treat everybody in the Christian community as equal and learn how to be a good friend to your brother.

The true Christianity is to take the simple teachings I described above seriously and not to surrender to the reality where the teachings of Christ are violated by people exploiting and oppressing other people.

You live in the country where typical CEO of the company makes hundreds times more than the struggling workers worrying about their jobs, health insurance, educating their children and their own uncertain retirement. You somehow participate in the sin of people who enforce and praise such system. Yet, apparently you prefer to think that the essence of your faith is to say that it is all OK because Christ died for our sins and we have no responsibilities other than to believe that we are saved.

Well, all I am saying is that the job is not finished and having Christ die for our sins is not enough.

Thomas Orr

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:41 am

Where did you get the impression that we don't have any responsibilities?
If one truly believes in Christ they will want to follow him, which means adhering to his teachings and following God's commandments. If someone professes to be Christian, yet does not lead a Christian life, He is just paying lipservice.

przemeknowicki · Post by **przemeknowicki** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:02 pm

Amadeus wrote:Where did you get the impression that we don't have any responsibilities?
If one truly believes in Christ they will want to follow him, which means adhering to his teachings and following God's commandments. If someone professes to be Christian, yet does not lead a Christian life, He is just paying lipservice.

I did not accuse Christians in this country of relinquishing their responsibilities. I merely observe that they are seriously confused in understanding what those responsibilities are.

In the last elections the American Christians overwhelmingly voted for Bush. Not only they didn't disassociate themselves from the sins of the political faction fighting for more inequality and more social injustice but they willingly helped the sinners to win and sin even more.

You said that the essence of Christianity is to believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins. What sins? Those committed by Adam and Eve? It is really puzzling to think that some people are gravely concerned about the sins of Adam and Eve, something they cannot do anything about, yet they think nothing about the sins of those who perpetuate injustice now and here, something they should do something about.

Regards,

Thomas Orr

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:56 pm

NOT ADAM AND EVE"S SINS. YOUR AND MY SINS. A sin can be a little thing like a lie, or not honoring your parents, or treating someone unfairly. You have sinned. Just think about it.

BeHereNow · Post by **BeHereNow** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:47 pm

Yes, przemeknowicki,
The message of Christianity is the Life of Christ, not the Death of Jesus.