Is atheism a religion?

[Nilloc James]

In many places I have seen theists claim atheism is just as much as a religion as any existing one.

Question for debate:
Is atheism a religion?


MY view is summarized by this quote:

Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. - Don Hirschberg

But I want to know other peoples opinions.

[McCulloch]

So everyone agrees that atheism is not a religion?

WOW a thread where there was actually a resolvable issue.

Until someone new comes along who will need to be convinced.

[BwhoUR]

Do you believe without doubt that God does not exist, and if so, what evidence do you have that he doesn't, or do you believe that he could exist, but you're not willing to believe that he does unless there is evidence?

Do I believe that god does not exist? Yes I believe that god does not exist as I believe that gravity does, if new sound evidence surfaces that gravity does not exist, like god, I will belive it.

What evidence do you have that he doesn't? Endless contemplating, reading, rationalizing, hearing the faithful speak of their faith, seeing what religion has done and is doing to people, unanswered prayers as a kid, witnessing excommunications by the church, reasonable analysis of the bible and other writings, overcoming my fear of death, dislike of judgmental holierthanthou attitudes, having a brain that works, jet planes hitting buildings, the ten 'commandments', etc.

Are you willing to belive if there is evidence? Sure, got some?

Oh yeah, Athiesm is not a religion.

[WinePusher]

If Atheism is a religion it is a religion that does NOT:

• Pray
  Sing songs
  Congegrate on special days and dates
  Wear special clothes/robes/pointy hats
  Have any ceremonies
  Have oaths or promises
  Have any set texts or writings of special importance
  Believe anything is divine because someone or some text says so
  Believe anything is not divine because someone or some text says so
  Try to save people
  Have a metaphysics
  Make demands on what people must believe other that the validity of argument
  Admit leaps of faith as proof or demonstration of truth
  Admit personal testimony as proof or demonstration of truth
  Admit statistically improbably events as proof or demonstration of the existence of a deity
  Make demands on how people behave morally.

If atheism is a religion it is a religion that:

• Submits to valid and judicious argument that admits nothing as proved until it is proved, nothing as demonstrated as likely until it is so demonstrated.

It is reasonable to conclude that atheism is no religion at all. But heck if someone want to insist then let them define on exactly what grounds atheism counts as a religion .

[lorene]

What evidence do you have that he doesn't?

Yes, that is the question...

Endless contemplating,

Not evidence

reading,

Not evidence.

rationalizing,

Both debatable and not evidence

hearing the faithful speak of their faith,

Not evidence.

seeing what religion has done and is doing to people,

Not evidence.

unanswered prayers as a kid

Not evidence.

, witnessing excommunications by the church,

Not evidence.

reasonable analysis of the bible and other writings,

What did you discern bout the bible after your...'reasonable analysis'?

overcoming my fear of death,

listen carefully...being suicidal is not evidence there is no God.

dislike of judgmental holierthanthou attitudes,

That is funny considering your next statement...(and not evidence)

having a brain that works,

you said something about other people attitudes... (Not evidence)

jet planes hitting buildings,

Not evidence

the ten 'commandments', etc.

Not evidence

Are you willing to belive if there is evidence? Sure, got some?

well if i used your posts rationale then it would be...

Jets not hitting buildings
A none working brain in people
unholieethanthou people
People scared to die

ect ect...

None of which would prove there is a GOD just as your list does nothing prove there isn't one...

[BwhoUR]

lorene,

You are right, it is hard to PROVE that something DOESN'T exist using EVIDENCE, just like a black hole is hard to prove, but you can conclude that if you are speaking with a reasonable person. In the case of god, if a reasonable person goes over all the alleged 'evidence', like reading the WORD OF GOD then contemplating it, going to church and listening to preachers, praying (even if your just a kid), etc. and concludes that there is no god, that should be enough for another mere human to understand. If it's not, well that's just too bad. The fact that there is no proof is clear, there is only FAITH in god left. End of story. But faith's not PROOF that god exists.

But why cop out with proof when it's your turn to make a valid point. Don't stoop to my obviously not-well-thought-out rant. Your proof that god actually exists should be overwhelming compared to mine, it should put me to shame, I mean, it's GOD right?

Also, when I said a brain that works, I should have said a brain that works the way it's supposed to. Not: suffering=devotion, child-murder = god's love, faith = proof, etc.

By the way, overcoming one's fear of death does not make one suicidal, that's just silly talk.

[McCulloch]

Atheism is a religion just like theism, I have already shown you this many times. One believes in all kinds of created gods, and the other says they don't. They both stick to their religious beliefs, and fight with each other trying to prove the other wrong just like any other religions do.

If I don't believe something to exist, I don't argue about it. Why build an entirely new religion like Big-bang Evolution to prove the theists that their gods don't exist? Because atheism, Evolution, Big-bang are religions, so why not just accept It?

Neither atheism nor theism are religions. Theism, the belief that there exists at least one being that should be called a god, is a doctrine of many religions, but theism itself is not a religion. In the same way, atheism, the negation of theism, explicitly rejected by many religions, is not a religion.

[Ooberman]

In many places I have seen theists claim atheism is just as much as a religion as any existing one.

Question for debate:
Is atheism a religion?


MY view is summarized by this quote:

Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. - Don Hirschberg

But I want to know other peoples opinions.

I answer this the same every time:


Atheism is no more a religion than Theism is a religion. Religions can be atheistic or theistic. There may be a lot of commonalities among atheists, and they may function as a loosely-defined religion, but only in as much as a theist can debate against an atheist - but that theist could be a Muslim, Christian or Hindu.

Likewise, the atheist might be a Secular Humanist, Spiritual Humanist, Buddhist, or of some other religion.


Saying that atheism is a religion is like saying Sport = team. Sport is the general set, and a team is a set within that set.


The ridiculous part of this is that it comes from theists hoping to undermine atheism by claiming it's just as 'bad' as a religion. Theists aren't known for their mental faculties, but any time a theist tries to argue "atheism is just a religion" they really expose their mental deficiencies.

[arian]

Atheism is a religion just like theism, I have already shown you this many times. One believes in all kinds of created gods, and the other says they don't. They both stick to their religious beliefs, and fight with each other trying to prove the other wrong just like any other religions do.

If I don't believe something to exist, I don't argue about it. Why build an entirely new religion like Big-bang Evolution to prove the theists that their gods don't exist? Because atheism, Evolution, Big-bang are religions, so why not just accept It?

Neither atheism nor theism are religions. Theism, the belief that there exists at least one being that should be called a god, is a doctrine of many religions, but theism itself is not a religion. In the same way, atheism, the negation of theism, explicitly rejected by many religions, is not a religion.

Thank you for pointing me here McCulloch, there are a lot of very good points but they are all over the place. Some believe atheism is a religion, some don't. As you just said, you believe neither theism nor atheism is a religion. So I will not debate each different opinion, but I believe we should set an agreeable standard, and any opinion, dictionary definition, divine revelation should be looked at and analyzed by this standard, .. otherwise, what's the point? We are all left with our own opinion, with maybe a few that share our opinion.

I'm sure you agree that a tennis ball is not a religion, right? But playing tennis at exactly 6 PM every day may very well be, agreed? The same with theism/atheism, in themselves it is not a religion, but people defining themselves by it, practicing by (like others said here) going to church, or following Dawkins writings, or other writing desperately trying to prove that a non-existent god that they DON"T believe in 'doesn't exist', .. or the theist who believes a god or gods DO exist, yet has no clue as to who this God is, and even denies the possibility to define this God, and not only that, but would consider anyone defining his God as blasphemy, now this IMHO is a religious fanatic. So please, no gods created by religion, and we wouldn't need definitions like theism/atheism. Now helping the poor, visiting the sick and the orphans religiously, like twice a week and EVERY week is a good thing, but just don't say that you are doing this for God. That would include God into your religion, and our Creator is NOT created or can be worshipped or contained in a set religion. Stop trying to put our Creator into your religion, this is why we have something like 38,000 versions of Christians, because they each define God by their specific religious ideologies. And no religion so far has defined God the great I Am Who I Am, because religion cannot see 'God'.
Religion can only understand the gods described in theism, not the God of the Bible, our Creator.

So is tennis a religion? Yes and no, for me it is not since I can't play. But a tennis ball is definitely not, do we agree?

OK, so lets look at science, the same thing here, science itself is NOT a religion, but it can become one for many scientists, agreed?

Science and religion;
Lets' take 100 highly skilled scientists, 50 atheists, and 50 theists from 50 various religious backgrounds, and send them each a sparrow from the same flock to analyze; dissect, Cat Scan, MRI, run blood tests, magnify, and whatever basic tests we ask them to perform from our list.

I ask you; do you think that the results would come back with one saying; "I believe this sparrow evolved over 23,281 years from a humming bird", the other; "I believe my sparrow was created by Allah", then another that; "I believe my evolved from a lizard", and even show a fossil of a lizard he believes it came from?

Exactly. So please let's make a rule to keep the separation of church and science. Let's keep religion out of science because it does NOT belong there.

The definition of atheism and theism is not a religion, but practicing either one IS.

My God, or our God and Creator by definition is not a religion. My definition of our God is not a religion just as wood, or a stone is not a religion. But if you make a stone or a wood image of God and worship that image, now that is religion.

The Bible is not a religion, it's a historical book, filled with information, songs, good and evil and so on, .. it's a book. But placing that book on an alter in your home with a lit up picture of a blond blue eyed man on the wall behind it, now that is religious.

Worshiping God our Creator is extremely ill defined. Because even the word worship is defined from a religious view point. Like if I whip myself, or if I say a hundred "Our Father's", or if I lay prostrate, face on the ground for hours, go to church every Sunday and never have missed a Sunday in 20 years is considered worshiping God. As if God was impressed by such dedication all for Him, .. yet you don't even know or care to know who He really is? "He is One, He is three in one, he is the greatest from all the others, He hates Jews, He is the God of Israel (Judah), but the Jews deny even His own Son He sent into the world JUST for them, .. this is ALL because of religions defining their own god or gods that compliment their religion. It has nothing to do with God our Creator.

Our God does not need such worship, but we are asked to love one another, do to others as you would have them do to you, etc. Not to God, .. God doesn't need you to do something good to Him because He has no need. If you think you are doing something 'good' to or for God, you are deceiving yourself. What you really are doing is worshiping your individual god created by your religion.

Acknowledging God our Creator and defining Him is NOT a religion, just as defining a tennis ball and acknowledging that it is a tennis ball is not a religion. But dedicating one to three days a week going to a church for the past 20 years, and listening to the same sermon week after week, singing worship songs to a god you cannot even define, .. Now that is religion.

But when I look at the wonder of creation, .. not because my religion tells me to, but because I am moved by the awesomeness and beauty in its design and cry out: "My God How Great Thou Art!", .. now that is worship outside of religion. When I help someone in need because I know, or just understand from logic what it is to be in need, and am moved by compassion for my fellow man, that too is true worship outside of religion.

[Danmark]

We frequently have people claim "atheism is a religion."
One frequent rejoinder is "atheism is a religion like 'off' is a TV channel."

Since it is obvious that atheism is certainly not a religion in the main sense of the word 'religion,' it is only fair to demand of the one that proposes that a word means its opposite that he be candid about his motive for his claim, and the 'point' he wants to make, so we don't have to waste time treading over well worn ground stating the obvious.

There are at least 3 main definitions; the first two are denotative, the 3d is a poetic reference:

1st, the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
2d, a particular system of faith and worship.
3d, a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

The only definition that could possibly refer to 'atheism as a religion,' is the third one, just as it would be possible to declare the pursuit of money, or science, or a fanatical devotion to a particular sports team, when these pursuit or observance of anything can be referred in an analogous sense only as a 'religion.'

What I don't understand is why we have to do violence to the language to try and make some point. Can't the point be made without turning words into worthless symbols that can mean anything, including their opposite?

I freely admit that the pursuit of truth and science and learning in general can be come a substitute for religion; that it can in ways fulfill some of the goals of religion; that it can provide meaning. But that does not make it a religion the key senses of the word.