.
This comment isn't meant to discourage vaccinations, nor to disparage their value; only to revive awareness that the only health a vaccination protects is your own.
In other words: vaccines don't sanitize your body; it remains toxic, and spreads germs everywhere you go; germs that are fully capable of infecting the people around you.
For example: when Europeans first came to North America, many of them arrived with herd immunity to diseases like typhoid, measles, flu, and smallpox. But their immunity didn't prevent the Europeans from carrying those diseases to indigenous villages. Consequently, friendly contact with native Americans resulted in many of them dying from foreign diseases.
Vaccination ID cards offer no assurance to passengers on an airplane, on mass transit, or on a bus that you won't make them sick if they sit near you.
_
The Peril Of Immunization
Moderator: Moderators
- WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
- WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Re: The Peril Of Immunization
Post #2.
According to the WHO corona virus dashboard: as of Apr 19, 2021 there were approximately 140,886,773 confirmed cases and 3,012,251 deaths.
That translates to roughly a 97.86% survival rate. (close enough to be called 98% in the new dumbed-down math.)
So even when people come down sick with the covid thingy, their chances of getting over it are very good, i.e. excellent.
NOTE: The percentage given is relative to global cases. The percentage relative to USA cases is likely to be higher seeing as how American sterilization, sanitation, hygiene, and diet are, on average, quite a bit better than some areas of the world that I could name.
_
According to the WHO corona virus dashboard: as of Apr 19, 2021 there were approximately 140,886,773 confirmed cases and 3,012,251 deaths.
That translates to roughly a 97.86% survival rate. (close enough to be called 98% in the new dumbed-down math.)
So even when people come down sick with the covid thingy, their chances of getting over it are very good, i.e. excellent.
NOTE: The percentage given is relative to global cases. The percentage relative to USA cases is likely to be higher seeing as how American sterilization, sanitation, hygiene, and diet are, on average, quite a bit better than some areas of the world that I could name.
_
- Tcg
- Savant
- Posts: 8494
- Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
- Location: Third Stone
- Has thanked: 2147 times
- Been thanked: 2295 times
Re: The Peril Of Immunization
Post #3[Replying to WebersHome in post #2]
Death is not the only result to be concerned about:
Tcg
Death is not the only result to be concerned about:
1 in 3 is 33%. 33% of 140,886,773 is roughly 48,000,000. You call that a good chance of getting over COVID-19 which is what I assume you are referring to by your phrase, "covid thingy?"Long after the fire of a Covid-19 infection, mental and neurological effects can still smolder
As many as 1 in 3 patients recovering from Covid-19 could experience neurological or psychological after-effects of their infections, experts told STAT, reflecting a growing consensus that the disease can have lasting impact on the brain. Beyond the fatigue felt by “long haulers” as they heal post-Covid, these neuropsychological problems range from headache, dizziness, and lingering loss of smell or taste to mood disorders and deeper cognitive impairment. Dating to early reports from China and Europe, clinicians have seen people suffer from depression and anxiety. Muscle weakness and nerve damage sometimes mean they can’t walk.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/12/aft ... s-smolder/
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Re: The Peril Of Immunization
Post #4.
_
That percentage isn't definite. Wording like "can" and "could" and "sometimes" is conjecture rather than fact.Tcg wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:58 amLong after the fire of a Covid-19 infection, mental and neurological effects can still smolder
As many as 1 in 3 patients recovering from Covid-19 could experience neurological or psychological after-effects of their infections, experts told STAT, reflecting a growing consensus that the disease can have lasting impact on the brain. Beyond the fatigue felt by “long haulers” as they heal post-Covid, these neuropsychological problems range from headache, dizziness, and lingering loss of smell or taste to mood disorders and deeper cognitive impairment. Dating to early reports from China and Europe, clinicians have seen people suffer from depression and anxiety. Muscle weakness and nerve damage sometimes mean they can’t walk.
1 in 3 is 33%.
_
- Difflugia
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3041
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
- Location: Michigan
- Has thanked: 3273 times
- Been thanked: 2020 times
Re: The Peril Of Immunization
Post #5It's not so much conjecture as statistical uncertainty. What do you think the bottom range is on that "1 in 3" figure? 1 in 4? 1 in 5? Does that make an actual difference, or are you just trying to claim that any amount of statistical uncertainty at all implies that something completely different is true?WebersHome wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:12 amThat percentage isn't definite. Wording like "can" and "could" and "sometimes" is conjecture rather than fact.
While I'm at it:
If the first statement were true, "herd immunity" wouldn't be a thing. That's how herd immunity works. A state of herd immunity means that enough people are immune in a way that they don't spread the pathogen that there are fewer paths from one susceptible person to another.WebersHome wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:54 amIn other words: vaccines don't sanitize your body; it remains toxic, and spreads germs everywhere you go; germs that are fully capable of infecting the people around you.
For example: when Europeans first came to North America, many of them arrived with herd immunity to diseases like typhoid, measles, flu, and smallpox.
Does the old math not teach the difference between precision and accuracy?WebersHome wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:43 pmThat translates to roughly a 97.86% survival rate. (close enough to be called 98% in the new dumbed-down math.)
Yes. Any individual with "covid thingy" will have a 98% chance of not dying. While that might seem negligible if there are only four or five people in the world that you care about, maybe you could try to take a broader view.WebersHome wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:43 pmSo even when people come down sick with the covid thingy, their chances of getting over it are very good, i.e. excellent.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.
- WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Re: The Peril Of Immunization
Post #6The 1 in 3 percentage pertains to aftereffects.
The 97.86 percentage pertains to survivors.
Bear with me while I flesh this out.
Let's say 150 people are infected with covid. Statistically; approximately 146 will survive. Of those 146 survivors, the experts suggest that 48 might suffer aftereffects. (I use the words "suggest" and "might" because the data isn't conclusive yet.)
However, no matter how many of the 146 survivors end up suffering aftereffects, all 146 will live.
Statistically at least four of your five will survive; but seeing as how the stats are based upon a very large number of cases; then it's very possible that all five of your people will survive and just as possible that none will survive.
In other words; all five have the very same 97.86% chance of coming out of it, but there's always that teensy little 2.14% hanging over our heads like a sword of Damocles to reckon with.
_
- Difflugia
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3041
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
- Location: Michigan
- Has thanked: 3273 times
- Been thanked: 2020 times
Re: The Peril Of Immunization
Post #7Yes.
Yes.
OK.
Yes. However, the current rate of infection among those that have completed their vaccinations is about 6% that of unvaccinated people. If they all got vaccinated, 9 of those 150 would get sick, there's a 10% chance one would die, and three might suffer aftereffects.WebersHome wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:32 pmLet's say 150 people are infected with covid. Statistically; approximately 146 will survive. Of those 146 survivors, the experts suggest that 48 might suffer aftereffects. (I use the words "suggest" and "might" because the data isn't conclusive yet.)
However, no matter how many of the 146 survivors end up suffering aftereffects, all 146 will live.
Yes. The fewer people you care about, the lower the chance that any of them will die.WebersHome wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:32 pmStatistically at least four of your five will survive; but seeing as how the stats are based upon a very large number of cases; then it's very possible that all five of your people will survive and just as possible that none will survive.
Vaccination reduces that to 0.12% of the same starting population.WebersHome wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:32 pmIn other words; all five have the very same 97.86% chance of coming out of it, but there's always that teensy little 2.14% hanging over our heads like a sword of Damocles to reckon with.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.
- Tcg
- Savant
- Posts: 8494
- Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
- Location: Third Stone
- Has thanked: 2147 times
- Been thanked: 2295 times
Re: The Peril Of Immunization
Post #8A new report adds to the growing need to not pretend that COVID-19 is not a series and potentially long lasting health issue:WebersHome wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:43 pm So even when people come down sick with the covid thingy, their chances of getting over it are very good, i.e. excellent.
Downplaying this reality provides no value to those seeking to educate themselves on the reality of the dangers involved.
People With Severe COVID-19 Have Higher Risk Of Long-Term Effects, Study Finds
Ziyad Al-Aly and his colleagues used the databases of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs to examine health outcomes in more than 73,000 people who'd had COVID-19 and were not hospitalized, comparing them with nearly 5 million users of the VA health system who did not have COVID-19 and were not hospitalized.
Six months later, those who'd had COVID-19 were found to be at higher risk of new onset heart disease, diabetes, mental health disorders including anxiety and depression, substance use disorders, kidney disease and other problems.
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... =989874986
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- WebersHome
- Guru
- Posts: 1788
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:10 am
- Location: Oregon
- Been thanked: 24 times
Re: The Peril Of Immunization
Post #9.
One of our long-time family friends came down with covid this past week. His case isn't serious enough for hospital. He can breathe okay but his tummy doesn't feel right, his head swims a bit; and he feels very tired.
Ironically, our friend is required to wear a mask all day every day on the job and yet still came down with it. He's a bit ticked off because he was led to believe that masking would protect him from the bug.
_
One of our long-time family friends came down with covid this past week. His case isn't serious enough for hospital. He can breathe okay but his tummy doesn't feel right, his head swims a bit; and he feels very tired.
Ironically, our friend is required to wear a mask all day every day on the job and yet still came down with it. He's a bit ticked off because he was led to believe that masking would protect him from the bug.
_
- Difflugia
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3041
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
- Location: Michigan
- Has thanked: 3273 times
- Been thanked: 2020 times
Re: The Peril Of Immunization
Post #10Is he also confused by the irony that seat belts don't eliminate all traffic fatalities?WebersHome wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:19 amIronically, our friend is required to wear a mask all day every day on the job and yet still came down with it. He's a bit ticked off because he was led to believe that masking would protect him from the bug.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.