Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

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Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

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The Veridican Argument for the Existence of God


Preamble and Necessary Stipulations

The first thing you must do is define what God is because if you go looking for a false notion of God, you won't find it. A false god truly does not exist, so there is no proof of it.

One must get past the belief of (and need for) a God that is like a human figure of a man sitting on a large throne in an astral place called heaven. Certainly, God could appear that way in a "vision", but that vision would be completely subjective to the one having it--just like a burning bush was to Moses (presumably).

For this argument, God is defined as the monistic entity. That means He is the only thing that is real, and all other things that seem to exist are modalities of his substance. Do not confuse this with pantheism. Pantheism states that God is the universe. Monism states that the universe is of the substance of God. Monistically speaking, therefore, the universe is God, but God is not just the universe. God is that which is the only real thing that exists, that has ever existed, that will always exist.

Secondly, don't go looking for a physical sign of God's existence; it doesn't work that way. If God exists as the monistic entity, then God necessarily is of a higher order of existence than the physical world. Thus, proof is going to have to be of a higher order because the "physical" proof of God is, after all, the entire physical universe. To ask for physical proof of God is like standing in a hundred acres of trees and asking for proof of the forest.

The next step is to move your thoughts to that higher order of thinking. Contemplate "nothingness." By that, I mean true nothingness. Imagine nothing exists--not even you as the imaginer of it. This can't be done ordinarily, of course, which is why you must use higher thought to envision it, like when we try to imagine a fourth dimension or space-time. Chances are that as you contemplate it, you will only glimpse it in your mind. But that will be enough to follow this argument.

Therefore:

Argument Axioms

Axiom #1: Nothingness is an eternal state.

If there is a state of nothingness, there will always be and has always been a state of nothingness. To imagine something popping into existence from nothingness requires "magical thinking," which isn't rational, but even if it were rational, true nothingness would not have existed in the first place. There would have always been the magic that popped something into existence. So, if there was ever nothingness--there would still only be nothingness.


Axiom #2: Something exists.

The universe with all its forces and matter exists. This does not need any further proof.


Axiom #3: If something exists, then something has always existed.

For if there was a time when there was nothing before there was something, then nothingness would still exist because nothingness is necessarily eternal (see axiom #1).


Axiom #4: If something exists, it is the only thing that has ever existed.

For if there were two things wholly separate from each other, then between those two things would be nothing--and if nothingness exists anywhere at any time, it is eternal.


Axiom #5: Something and nothing cannot exist together.

Either there is one thing that has always existed, or there is nothingness that has always existed. And if there is a state of nothingness of any size or shape, then it existed before something. For once something exists, it is the only thing that exists. Keep in mind that "something" does not float in a sea of "nothingness" There is no "outside" of something. There is not that which exists and that which does not exist. There is only one or the other, and as we know, there is something that exists (Axiom #2).


Axiom #6: The one thing that exists has consciousness as an attribute.

It may have many other attributes as well. It may have infinite attributes or at least all the attributes that can exist. But one of those attributes is consciousness. We know this because we are conscious, and we are necessarily part of the one thing that exists.


Conclusion:

If nothingness was ever a state of being, it would have never changed from that state. However, because something does exist, it is the one thing that does exist and must have always existed. That one substance that exists is minimally a conscious entity. Therefore, the one thing that has existed eternally, and is conscious, is what we call "God."

--The End--

NOTE: This argument was originally created by Rev. Edward J. Gordon on October 10, 2018.
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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

Post #21

Post by Athetotheist »

Purple Knight wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:36 pm
Veridican wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:45 amA lot of times, people say that I'm a pantheist, and have to correct them on that. It's just like Spinoza, he was falsely accused of equating the world with God. Granted, the difference between pantheism and monism is subtle, but it makes all the difference in the world (no pun intended). I usually tell people the difference is this: My coffee cup is God, but God isn't just my coffee cup. So, the whole universe is of the substance of God, but God is not just the universe. All the world is of the substance of God, but God is not made of the substance of the world. It can be a bit head spinning, but it's important. O:)
I read Spinoza in college. I don't misunderstand; I did say basically for a reason. Spinoza is difficult to explain.

It was fun to watch you get jumped on for proving God when the God you proved is the God of someone who is, from the atheist's point of view, barely religious (and again I'm oversimplifying deliberately). Difflugia seems to understand your argument and the minor leap about consciousness possibly being emergent, but I don't anyone else did. Good show. +1 to anyone who makes me lol at my own side. That's why I'm here.
Athetotheist wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:17 pm "So, are yuh Chinese 'r Japanese?"
---Hank Hill
At this point, if you're Laotian, you can say that, and explain that it's neither, and that Laos is a small Asian country with really good spicy food bordering Myanmar/Burma, Thailand, and Vietnam, rather than making fun of people who don't have access to that information.
Did you read my post in context? I was commenting on the assumption that I had to be either an atheist or a Christian (maybe you understood that, but I just want to make sure it's clear).

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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

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Post by Purple Knight »

Veridican wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:40 pmWhat did you study in college? And, if I might ask, where are you at religiously?
I studied biology very seriously, though I didn't end up working in the field. I became a cat breeder as a hobby (I breed Oriental Shorthairs, the best breed) and I've had to settle for using my knowledge of genetics to help me do something I love on the side, even though it barely makes any money. I get to be surrounded by cats, so. Real men love cats, btw.

I'm an atheist, but not because I believe God can't exist. I believe God is about as likely as Q from Star Trek (not impossible) but if I find either, I'm not going to fall to my knees and start worshiping because... they're... omnipotent...? Possibly created the universe? This is my main disconnect. If I'm omnipotent, do you worship me? I hope you don't because I'm not worthy of worship (that... hurts to say, but it's true) and my obtaining any sort of powers doesn't, in itself, change this.

I'm an atheist because God must be:

0. Helpful to mere mortal people who wish to be moral.
This I hope I don't have to explain or give any reason to. That's why I mark it with a zero.
1. Worthy of worship.
Now, you can say, God doesn't do anything morally wrong when he does things like ordering genocide, favouring his own race over others, and punishing harshly, even though mortals would be wrong if they do the same, and fine, God is still moral, because he has every power including the power to control morality, but that isn't useful. Similarly, I can be moral while I slaughter cows and eat them because it is generally accepted that humans have rights and cows don't, but the point is, this doesn't help the cows in any way. It can't. Now, I can reward cows who exhibit good behaviour, but I can't simply promise them rewards after they die. I could be lying. Remember, I have rights, and cows don't, so lying to them would be doing no wrong.
2. Clear about his wishes.
In other words, when some shyster tells people to do evil in God's name, God would have to intervene and put a stop to it. This is the only time when intervention is necessary but it is necessary in this situation. And you can say, well, if it's a genuine dupe, God doesn't punish them, and that's fine, Puzzle goes to Heaven, I have no problem with that, it's just that it's not useful. It doesn't help me be moral. If it's just, do whatever you think is right, if it turns out you were duped it doesn't matter, I can do that without God.
3. Unrequiring of blind trust.
Could Lucifer say he was God and have any number of Christians do any number of evil things? You bet. For all we know this is Lucifer's pocket universe and he's doing just that, and we're supposed to reject him and his evil religion. The whole apple story makes more sense as part of such a bet, doesn't it? Once God requires that you go against your moral compass and do what he says instead, because faith, you could as easily be trusting an evil entity as a good one. Once morality is no longer about doing what you believe is right, and instead about blindly trusting someone else about what is right, you've reduced morality to a lottery; pick-the-winner. Maybe the universe is structured so that God is really the winner, but it's still a lottery, and morality should not be a lottery.

Notice, I don't even put existence on this list. I don't think it's necessary. I think it might help, but it's not necessary. And in that, Aslan is a decent candidate for worship, because he's a version of God who's been cleaned up sufficiently to appear good and right to innocent children. Unfortunately, this version is sullied because underneath the lion's mask, he's still the Christian God in disguise... The Christian God who is - already having had one layer of this done to him and people saw through it - just the racist, pissy, vindictive Old Testament God in disguise.

So I'm an atheist because no god, real or fictional, meets these criteria. It's sad, but nobody has even invented such a god. Nobody has bothered to put pen to paper and make up such a being. Now, if it was a fictional being, it would be more difficult for it to satisfy criterion 2, but not impossible. Either 1) the work of fiction would have to be exceptionally clear, so that it couldn't be misinterpreted for evil, or 2) the religion around that fictional character would have to not only be powerful enough to take down scammers, but also keep itself so honourable and clean that scammers don't infest and hijack that organisation itself.

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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

Post #23

Post by Veridican »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:07 pm I studied biology very seriously, though I didn't end up working in the field. I became a cat breeder as a hobby (I breed Oriental Shorthairs, the best breed) and I've had to settle for using my knowledge of genetics to help me do something I love on the side, even though it barely makes any money. I get to be surrounded by cats, so. Real men love cats, btw.
:approve:
I'm an atheist, but not because I believe God can't exist. I believe God is about as likely as Q from Star Trek (not impossible) but if I find either, I'm not going to fall to my knees and start worshiping because... they're... omnipotent...? Possibly created the universe? This is my main disconnect. If I'm omnipotent, do you worship me? I hope you don't because I'm not worthy of worship (that... hurts to say, but it's true) and my obtaining any sort of powers doesn't, in itself, change this.
So, you bristle at the idea of being subservient to God. But do you think there is anything, I mean anything at all, do you think there's anything in existence that is greater than you are?
I'm an atheist because God must be:

0. Helpful to mere mortal people who wish to be moral.

1. Worthy of worship.

2. Clear about his wishes.

3. Unrequiring of blind trust.
Well, one thing's for sure: God's not going to bow down to us. :no:
All for Christ and only for Christ! :wave:

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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

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Post by Purple Knight »

Veridican wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:52 pmSo, you bristle at the idea of being subservient to God. But do you think there is anything, I mean anything at all, do you think there's anything in existence that is greater than you are?
There are other people greater than I am, and I bow to them. I would bow to anything that would help me be moral, and I do, until it becomes plain that that thing does not help me be moral, at which point I no longer bow to it. I have tried Christian morals just like I have tried everything else. And I have said, I wouldn't need to think God existed to believe in the morality of its moral structure, because for me it's about being moral, not getting into Heaven.

You don't bow to me, or to Bozo the Clown, or to Lucifer the Light, because there's not a reason to. None of these are good choices for worship. There has to be a good reason to be subservient to someone or something. I don't think any god anyone has even thought of meets those criteria.

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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

Post #25

Post by Veridican »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:40 pm You don't bow to me, or to Bozo the Clown, or to Lucifer the Light, because there's not a reason to. None of these are good choices for worship. There has to be a good reason to be subservient to someone or something. I don't think any god anyone has even thought of meets those criteria.
Okay, well, what about a God you have thought of? Maybe you shouldn't let people (from the writer of Genesis to the latest pedophilic pope) turn you into an atheist.

Here's something that's always got me: Why morphine? The human race, at least since the time of any kind of farming, has known that you can use the sap from poppies as a pain reliever so strong that if you take enough of it you will just stop breathing and not even care that you're not breathing. Why does that exist? For all the horrors of God, why did he give us that. And it grows everywhere if you let it. It's a very durable flower. He gave us Marijuana, too, and it will grow everywhere if you just let it. Willow bark has a strong anti-inflammatory property, and even the ancient Egyptians knew about that. You could easily make a concoction of morphine and salicilin from willow bark, and you've got one hell of a pain medicine. Why would that exist in this world? Chance? If there is a God and he created the earth, he didn't have to give us that.

Or this: Why do we go unconscious so easily? Injure an artery and you are unconscious in seconds--no more pain. Drown in water, and you are unconscious very soon. It's not pleasant, no, but after about 90 seconds, you pass out--in the scheme of things, that's not a lot of pain.

Or this: We can kill ourselves (see morphine above).

I'm just trying to say, if God--the real God--is such a monster, why give us all that?

As a biologic species, we're meant to procreate, but it doesn't hurt if we don't. Why not? If it hurt, we'd try harder. But, nope.

Plants--everything eats them. It's part of the food chain. There're more plants than animals, and plants have to go through every horror imaginable: burning, drought, being crushed, eaten, shat upon, etc. He didn't give plants a nervous system. He could have.

You know, here's a little factoid, if you're interested--and still reading my verbose reply: The Veridican notion of God is that He's the monistic entity, as mentioned in this OP. Because of that, God experiences everything we experience because our mind is just a modality of His mind. Even if he throws someone in hell to let them fry for a while. He has to fry, too. A what a child experiences being raped and then murdered is experienced by God. In fact, he experiences all rapes and murders. There is not an unpleasantness of any kind that God does not experience.

I will close with this clip of a great Satanic monolog, if the forum will let me post it. If not, maybe you can follow the YouTube link. I think you'll like it. Everyone likes Al Pacino! But...is the devil telling Kevin the truth? :-k

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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

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Post by Purple Knight »

Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:32 pm
Purple Knight wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:40 pm You don't bow to me, or to Bozo the Clown, or to Lucifer the Light, because there's not a reason to. None of these are good choices for worship. There has to be a good reason to be subservient to someone or something. I don't think any god anyone has even thought of meets those criteria.
Okay, well, what about a God you have thought of? Maybe you shouldn't let people (from the writer of Genesis to the latest pedophilic pope) turn you into an atheist.
Try though I might, my imagination is not capable of making something greater than itself. At the point I can say, I don't have this quality, so my god would, I already know what the quality is and can strive for it myself, no need of a middle-man.

The only need for a god would be motivational at that point. I had this a bit with Aslan as a kid. I didn't even know it was supposed to be Christian. I just thought, oh, a giant lion that teaches people to do good things, let me imagine what Aslan would say about this. My problem is that I invariably get it wrong. A moral-middleman doesn't help unless you already have an understanding of morality, and I don't. I can trick people very very easily, but that's not the same thing. When I try to be genuine... I have actually not had a single success. It's not surprising that other psychopaths end up always tricking people.
Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:32 pmHere's something that's always got me: Why morphine? The human race, at least since the time of any kind of farming, has known that you can use the sap from poppies as a pain reliever so strong that if you take enough of it you will just stop breathing and not even care that you're not breathing. Why does that exist? For all the horrors of God, why did he give us that. And it grows everywhere if you let it. It's a very durable flower. He gave us Marijuana, too, and it will grow everywhere if you just let it. Willow bark has a strong anti-inflammatory property, and even the ancient Egyptians knew about that. You could easily make a concoction of morphine and salicilin from willow bark, and you've got one hell of a pain medicine. Why would that exist in this world? Chance? If there is a God and he created the earth, he didn't have to give us that.
You could as easily ask, why is there a way to make crack cocaine? Why does that exist? Some people do get very addicted to opioids and it's more downplayed than it should be. If there's a god of all this, it's a neutral one on the alignment scale, not a good or evil one. And that's fine, perhaps that one actually exists, one that loves balance, and gives the pain medicine to balance out the pain, but don't take too much or that's just as bad. Does it help me be moral? That's not to say I can't learn from Nature and I do. Nature is profoundly beautiful and a profound teacher. I just don't think it helps me be moral.
Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:32 pmAs a biologic species, we're meant to procreate, but it doesn't hurt if we don't. Why not? If it hurt, we'd try harder. But, nope.
Well, it doesn't hurt men. I think it hurts women quite a bit. I never cared if I had a girlfriend or not. That's something that, to me, is nice to have, but, eh, I can go without. For the girls, it's different. It may be easy for a theist to understand in terms of the significance of them having a hole rather than a protuberance.
Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:32 pmBecause of that, God experiences everything we experience because our mind is just a modality of His mind. Even if he throws someone in hell to let them fry for a while. He has to fry, too. A what a child experiences being raped and then murdered is experienced by God. In fact, he experiences all rapes and murders. There is not an unpleasantness of any kind that God does not experience.
Essentially, in this view, God is multiboxing a bunch of games of Roy.

I've been over this before, actually, and thought in a similar way.
Purple Knight wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:38 pm

Here's the real question: If I, now as Roy, didn't want to live this life, but the person playing me said he did, and if he's happy and fine with it when he wakes up... and if I only ever existed as an extension of him... Is that okay? Is anyone really being tortured here?
My answer is more or less that I agree with Lucifer about the cosmic gag reel (that was one of my all-time favourite movies btw). It's not nice to multibox so many games of Roy. Roy exists. Roy suffers. Roy is his own entity, separate from the player. The player can't just claim Roy's suffering and say that makes it okay.

That's just my opinion though.

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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

Post #27

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Purple Knight wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:51 pm
Here's the real question: If I, now as Roy, didn't want to live this life, but the person playing me said he did, and if he's happy and fine with it when he wakes up... and if I only ever existed as an extension of him... Is that okay? Is anyone really being tortured here?

If you're an atheist beyond any possibility of change--why are you so hung up on morality? I mean, seriously--if there's no God, what difference does being good make? I'm not saying atheists don't have a sense of right and wrong or that they go about doing evil. I'm just asking what difference it makes to anything if there is no God. The evil people and the good, in that case, end up the same way. And that's no reason to believe in God; I'm just asking why you're so apparently hung up on being "moral"?

The question about the video, Rick and Morty, is a religious one. I enjoyed the vid, BTW. But the question your asking is religious in nature. If you're an atheist, there's really no point in discussing it. But what the heck...

The fact is, we are all dream characters in the mind of God. Even Christ is a creation of God. Even the Father is a creation of God. In the Gospel of John, it says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The key word there is "beginning." The Word (who is Christ) and God (as John refers to him) had a beginning. The "Substance." The "Monistic Entity" did not. The Substance is dreaming God, and God is dreaming us, and tonight, you will dream something that is not as real as you are.

What rights does the dream image have that the dreamer didn't give to it? What is the appropriate response the dream image should have to his Dreamer?

I want God to love me enough to want to keep me and not just let me fade away. And that is the religious answer.

True story: I had a lucid dream once and in it I met three people. Two guys and a girl. I remember the girl had red hair. I told them I knew I was dreaming, and that I would be waking up soon, and the girl said to me, "Don't forget us. Promise you'll come back to us." As you can see, I've never forgotten them--though I've never gotten back to them.

I want Go to remember me--forever.
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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

Post #28

Post by Purple Knight »

Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:16 pmI'm just asking what difference it makes to anything if there is no God. The evil people and the good, in that case, end up the same way. And that's no reason to believe in God; I'm just asking why you're so apparently hung up on being "moral"?
I care about being good for the same reason you want to go to Heaven. Achieving good is itself the reward. I question why anyone would want to go to Heaven. To do what? Be bored? Experience pleasure? If it's the latter then you can just accept that becoming good would make me feel pleasure.
Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:16 pmThe question about the video, Rick and Morty, is a religious one. I enjoyed the vid, BTW. But the question your asking is religious in nature. If you're an atheist, there's really no point in discussing it. But what the heck...

The fact is, we are all dream characters in the mind of God. Even Christ is a creation of God. Even the Father is a creation of God. In the Gospel of John, it says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." The key word there is "beginning." The Word (who is Christ) and God (as John refers to him) had a beginning. The "Substance." The "Monistic Entity" did not. The Substance is dreaming God, and God is dreaming us, and tonight, you will dream something that is not as real as you are.
You'll find I can accept things like this for the purposes of discussion. I realised a long time ago that if I could do this for Star Trek and not the Bible, I had serious unaddressed biases. I address all consistent lore as if it is real. There's no point talking about it otherwise.
Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:16 pmWhat rights does the dream image have that the dreamer didn't give to it? What is the appropriate response the dream image should have to his Dreamer?
The way I would structure the universe, and rights, is that consciousness would grant rights. Rick and Morty don't have the right to create a bunch of Roys just to torture them and laugh about it later. Maybe they share the same soul, but they exist as separate entities with their own consciousness. If you want to play a game like that, don't play it blind. Keep all your memories and realise the whole time that it's a game. Then there is no Roy and you can do as you like. A separate consciousness with its own will that I create from my own, and separated it from my own, to me, has just as much rights as a baby created from a mother. Don't eat babies. "But, I made the baby, it's mine, it was formed from me, I formed it deliberately," is no excuse.

Roy ought to be pissed. He's created over and over just to be tortured.
Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:16 pmI want God to love me enough to want to keep me and not just let me fade away. And that is the religious answer.
Nobody wants to die. But it's natural to die. Just as there was a time I didn't exist, there must be a time after in which I don't exist, and new consciousnesses coming into being all the time and going out. It's frightening the idea of dying, but I'm not entirely sure I want to just go on living. Especially if I can reach my goals, I want to cease to exist, and have other people exist instead, and create for themselves their own goals, and hopefully achieve them.
Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:16 pmTrue story: I had a lucid dream once and in it I met three people. Two guys and a girl. I remember the girl had red hair. I told them I knew I was dreaming, and that I would be waking up soon, and the girl said to me, "Don't forget us. Promise you'll come back to us." As you can see, I've never forgotten them--though I've never gotten back to them.

I want Go to remember me--forever.
I've had dreams much like this.

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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

Post #29

Post by Athetotheist »

Veridican wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:32 pm
Purple Knight wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:40 pm You don't bow to me, or to Bozo the Clown, or to Lucifer the Light, because there's not a reason to. None of these are good choices for worship. There has to be a good reason to be subservient to someone or something. I don't think any god anyone has even thought of meets those criteria.
Okay, well, what about a God you have thought of? Maybe you shouldn't let people (from the writer of Genesis to the latest pedophilic pope) turn you into an atheist.

Here's something that's always got me: Why morphine? The human race, at least since the time of any kind of farming, has known that you can use the sap from poppies as a pain reliever so strong that if you take enough of it you will just stop breathing and not even care that you're not breathing. Why does that exist? For all the horrors of God, why did he give us that. And it grows everywhere if you let it. It's a very durable flower. He gave us Marijuana, too, and it will grow everywhere if you just let it. Willow bark has a strong anti-inflammatory property, and even the ancient Egyptians knew about that. You could easily make a concoction of morphine and salicilin from willow bark, and you've got one hell of a pain medicine. Why would that exist in this world? Chance? If there is a God and he created the earth, he didn't have to give us that.

Or this: Why do we go unconscious so easily? Injure an artery and you are unconscious in seconds--no more pain. Drown in water, and you are unconscious very soon. It's not pleasant, no, but after about 90 seconds, you pass out--in the scheme of things, that's not a lot of pain.

Or this: We can kill ourselves (see morphine above).

I'm just trying to say, if God--the real God--is such a monster, why give us all that?

As a biologic species, we're meant to procreate, but it doesn't hurt if we don't. Why not? If it hurt, we'd try harder. But, nope.

Plants--everything eats them. It's part of the food chain. There're more plants than animals, and plants have to go through every horror imaginable: burning, drought, being crushed, eaten, shat upon, etc. He didn't give plants a nervous system. He could have.

You know, here's a little factoid, if you're interested--and still reading my verbose reply: The Veridican notion of God is that He's the monistic entity, as mentioned in this OP. Because of that, God experiences everything we experience because our mind is just a modality of His mind. Even if he throws someone in hell to let them fry for a while. He has to fry, too. A what a child experiences being raped and then murdered is experienced by God. In fact, he experiences all rapes and murders. There is not an unpleasantness of any kind that God does not experience.

I will close with this clip of a great Satanic monolog, if the forum will let me post it. If not, maybe you can follow the YouTube link. I think you'll like it. Everyone likes Al Pacino! But...is the devil telling Kevin the truth? :-k

What I don't understand is why, with all of your unorthodox propositions, you still wear a veneer of Christianity. You seem to reject a lot of traditional----and even biblical----Christian theology, but you try to hang on to Jesus. Why? As the old punchline goes, "If the suit don't fit, the suit don't fit." Why keep trying to make the Christian suit fit when you seem so firmly convinced that it doesn't?

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Re: Veridican Argument for the Existence of God

Post #30

Post by Veridican »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:08 pm I want to cease to exist,
You know, Purple Knight, you have an answer for everything. I'll bet you wrote your entire reply to me in less than two minutes. You don't even think about it, do you? Except counter everything so you can justify your non-belief. That's fine. It's your life and your mind, you will do whatever you want to do. But the above is the honesty above everything else you've said. It is everything.

When a person dies their mind either exists on the astral plane or it reabsorbs back into the mind of God from whence it came. The reabsorption (perishing) is pleasant. It's like suddenly realizing all truth and all beauty. It is the beholding of perfection, and it feels like the ultimate "coming home." And the closer you get to that light, the further you walk down the tunnel toward it, the greater it is, but at the same time, the less you become. And then, nothing. You are back to what you were before you were born--God. That's assuming he doesn't throw you in hell for a while first and then lets you blink out from there (destruction). But, I don't know, you seem like a nice guy who cares about doing the good thing, so, perishing is probably in your future, but I can't tell that, and I can't judge it. I'm not qualified to, and I don't know. That's a fact.

That said, I know exactly what you mean when you say you want to cease to exist. Brother, I know exactly what you mean.

But, throughout the course of my life, I have fallen in love with Jesus Christ, and I want to be one with him, and that transformation has already begun. Christ is about life and about the new Heaven-Earth, and I want to be part of that. I don't want to go back to being God's substance. I want to be God's son (salvation).
All for Christ and only for Christ! :wave:

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