Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

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JehovahsWitness
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Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse mentioned in the book of Revelation (chapter 6) represent Jesus (first) and the present world conditions (horsemen 2 through 4) particularly in evidence since 1914

What, do you think the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are and why?


My question really is directed to those that believe that the book of Revelation does have some kind of spiritual meaning.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
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Re: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Post #51

Post by onewithhim »

Miles wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:34 am
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:47 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:03 pm I don't think anyone is going to care, other than your god perhaps.
Perhaps more would If they knew the significance of the events we are all exoeriencing. For example the present war in Ukraine is just one example of the SECOND horesman, namely the increased impact of WAR, violence and civil conflict since 1914, signalling we are living in the last days of this present system of things.
You talk as if war is something new; first created in the 20th century, and with WW I no less.

HOWEVER

"List of wars ordered chronologically by the year that hostilities were initiated.
.
.
.

1700–1800


Second Northern War (1700–21)
War of the Spanish Succession (1701–14)
War of the Emboabas (1708–09)
Carnatic Wars (1746–48; 1749–54; 1758–63)
Queen Anne’s War (1702–13)
Yamasee War (1715–16)
War of the Polish Succession (1733–38)
War of Jenkins’ Ear (1739–48)
War of the Austrian Succession (1740–48)
King George’s War (1744–48)
French and Indian War (1754–63)
Silesian Wars (1740–42; 1744–45; 1756–62)
Seven Years’ War (1756–63)
Lord Dunmore’s War (1774)
Rohilla War (1774)
American Revolution (1775–83)
First Maratha War (1775–82)
War of the Bavarian Succession (1778–79)
Cape Frontier Wars (1779–1879)
French Revolution (1787–99)
French revolutionary wars (1792–1801)

1800–1900

Cape Frontier Wars (1779–1879)
French revolutionary wars (1792–1801)
War of the Oranges (1801)
Tripolitan War (1801–05)
Second Maratha War (1803–05)
Third Maratha War (1817–18)
Napoleonic Wars (1803–15)
Black War (1804–30)
Peninsular War (1808–14)
War of 1812 (1812–15)
Creek War (1813–14)
War of Greek Independence (1821–32)
Padri War (1821–37)
Naning War (1831–32)
Pastry War (1838–39)
Mexican-American War (1846–48)
Crimean War (1853–56)
Bleeding Kansas (1854–59)
American Civil War (1861–65)
War of the Triple Alliance (1864/65–70)
Seven Weeks’ War (1866)
Selangor Civil War (1867–73)
Franco-German War (1870–71)
Acehnese War (1873–1904)
Red River Indian War (1874–75)
Serbo-Turkish War (1876–78)
Anglo-Zulu War (1879)
War of the Pacific (1879–83)
Gun War (1880–81)
Sino-French War (1883–85)
Serbo-Bulgarian War (1885–86)
Sino-Japanese War (1894–95)
Spanish-American War (1898)
Philippine-American War (1899–1902)
South African War (1899–1902)
The War of a Thousand Days (1899–1903)

1900–2000


Acehnese War (1873–1904)
Philippine-American War (1899–1902)
South African War (1899–1902)
The War of a Thousand Days (1899–1903)
Boxer Rebellion (1900–01)
Moro Wars (1901–13)
Russo-Japanese War (1904–05)
Pig War (1906–09)
Mexican Revolution (1910–20)
Italo-Turkish War (1911–12)
World War I (1914–18)
.
.
.
source

So why are you picking WW I (1914) as the beginning of the "ride of the first horseman (Jesus)"? WW II had over 5 times as many deaths, and the Mongol wars that preceded it (1206–1368) had twice as many deaths as WW I. And way before that the Three Kingdom Wars in China (184-280 AD) had almost 2.5 times as many deaths?

And let's not forget some of China's other significant wars.

The An Lushan Rebellion in China (755 and 763 AD) with 13,000,000–36,000,000 deaths.

The Manchu invasion of China (1616-1683) that took 25,000,000+ lives

The Taiping Rebellion in China (1850- 1864), which killed 20,000,000–70,000,000. Outstripping WW I deaths by 1.25 to 4.33 times.


Or don't Chinese lives count?

To tell the truth, it appears you're picking cherries here. But why? Why zero in on 1914 and the outbreak of WW I and disregard the other notable wars?


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You miss the point. 1914 saw the first WORLD war. Haven't you realized that it is called "World War I"? That's because the entire world was involved in that unprecedentedly bloody conflict (what with airplanes and mustard gas and weapons the likes of which didn't exist before). Got that? The entire world involved in the same 5 years. This was unprecedented.

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Re: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Post #52

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:18 pm
You miss the point. 1914 saw the first WORLD war. Haven't you realized that it is called "World War I"? That's because the entire world was involved in that unprecedentedly bloody conflict (what with airplanes and mustard gas and weapons the likes of which didn't exist before). Got that? The entire world involved in the same 5 years. This was unprecedented.
"The entire world" you say. All 97 countries. Well, let's see how big your WW I really was.

The United States World War One Centennial Commission only lists 30 countries that qualify as "Allies and Associated Powers" plus the 4 listed as "The Central Powers." (Austria-Hungary, Germany, Ottoman Empire(Turkey), and Bulgaria). and with this little qualifier: "The following nations [the 34 listed] formally declared war; not all participated in hostilities."
source

A Note on the listing of Great Britain. "Great Britain is the official collective name of of England, Scotland and Wales and their associated islands. It does not include Northern Ireland"
source


Yet some sources break the allies into 42 countries and "all African countries except for Western Sahara and Ethiopia that remained neutral, and the German East Africa (today’s Burundi, Rwanda and Tanganyika), and German South West Africa," plus the four Central Powers. HOWEVER, "A few countries did not get involved in World War I.
Countries that were neutral during World War I were: Afghanistan, Albania, Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Denmark, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Iceland, Indonesia, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Paraguay, Persia (Iran), Spain, Suriname, Sweden, Switzerland, Venezuela and Western Sahara."
sourrce


So . . . . no matter how you cut the cake, out of the approximately 97 existing countries at the time 23 (24%) were not involved, and some that were involved never participated in the hostilities.

Got that? The entire world WAS NOT involved in the same 5 years. :mrgreen:


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Re: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Post #53

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Miles in post #52]
Why did the world call it World War I?

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Re: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Post #54

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:14 am [Replying to Miles in post #52]
Why did the world call it World War I?
"We now call it the First World War or World War One, but is this really an accurate description? Was it really a global war? And was it really the "first"?

Contemporaries certainly thought it was a world war and called it that. The term "World War" (Weltkrieg) first appeared in Germany in 1914. The French and British referred to the war as "La Grande Guerre" or the "Great War", but also adopted the term "World War" later in the conflict.

The Germans, seeing themselves pitted against the global empires of Britain and France, felt the world was against them from the outset. From their perspective, the war was of such magnitude that it created a sense of the whole world collapsing - the term World War expressed the scale of fear the conflict unleashed.

After 1945, historians found the term "First World War" appropriate because they saw 1914-1918 as the first of a particular type of international conflict - the world's first industrialised "total" war - which had been followed by a second industrialised world war of this kind - 1939-1945.

There are certainly arguments that can be made, however, that the titles "First World War" and "World War One" are misleading. The Seven Years War, the mid-18th Century battle for supremacy among Europe's great powers, and the Napoleonic Wars were also fought across the globe, on multiple continents causing severe disruption to global trade. Moreover, if measured in comparison to World War Two, which saw widespread fighting in China, South-East Asia and the Pacific, then 1914-1918 looks more like a European conflict - the key fronts that would decide the outcome of the war were all in Europe."

source


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Re: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Post #55

Post by onewithhim »

Miles wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:45 pm
onewithhim wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:14 am [Replying to Miles in post #52]
Why did the world call it World War I?
"We now call it the First World War or World War One, but is this really an accurate description? Was it really a global war? And was it really the "first"?

Contemporaries certainly thought it was a world war and called it that. The term "World War" (Weltkrieg) first appeared in Germany in 1914. The French and British referred to the war as "La Grande Guerre" or the "Great War", but also adopted the term "World War" later in the conflict.

The Germans, seeing themselves pitted against the global empires of Britain and France, felt the world was against them from the outset. From their perspective, the war was of such magnitude that it created a sense of the whole world collapsing - the term World War expressed the scale of fear the conflict unleashed.

After 1945, historians found the term "First World War" appropriate because they saw 1914-1918 as the first of a particular type of international conflict - the world's first industrialised "total" war - which had been followed by a second industrialised world war of this kind - 1939-1945.

There are certainly arguments that can be made, however, that the titles "First World War" and "World War One" are misleading. The Seven Years War, the mid-18th Century battle for supremacy among Europe's great powers, and the Napoleonic Wars were also fought across the globe, on multiple continents causing severe disruption to global trade. Moreover, if measured in comparison to World War Two, which saw widespread fighting in China, South-East Asia and the Pacific, then 1914-1918 looks more like a European conflict - the key fronts that would decide the outcome of the war were all in Europe."

source


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Your fourth paragraph agrees with what I have been saying, and there's no reason to discard it. The Great War was called World War I for a good reason. That war was the first to affect the entire world in some way. This was unprecedented.

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