Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Pointless Posts, Raves n Rants, Obscure Opinions

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse mentioned in the book of Revelation (chapter 6) represent Jesus (first) and the present world conditions (horsemen 2 through 4) particularly in evidence since 1914

What, do you think the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are and why?


My question really is directed to those that believe that the book of Revelation does have some kind of spiritual meaning.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Post #21

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to post 19 by marco]

Your comments are so shallow that I shouldn't even bother with them, but I can't help myself because you so obviously shrug off the scriptures that are shown to you that prove my points. How can you totally disregard 2 Peter 3:8???

.

User avatar
McCulloch
Site Supporter
Posts: 24063
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Been thanked: 3 times

Post #22

Post by McCulloch »

onewithhim wrote:To McCulloch and 2nd-rateMind: Jesus' "coming quickly" 2,000 years from when those words were penned should not cause a problem for us humans. We recognize that to God and Jesus and the angels time is experienced in a different manner than the way humans do. Jehovah has ALWAYS existed, and Jesus for untold billions of years, so how would 2,000 years seem to them? Undoubtedly as a very short period of time? Actually, the Bible says that to Jehovah "one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2Peter 3:8)
The Revelation of John was written to humans. So let's make the assumption that the words used have meaning to humans not to Angels. Please contrast where the prophet Daniel is told seal up his prophesies because they would be a long time (Daniel 12). Whatever your interpretation of the prophesies of Daniel and John are, surely the short time for John has to be shorter than the long time for Daniel.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

User avatar
marco
Savant
Posts: 12314
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:15 pm
Location: Scotland
Been thanked: 2 times

Post #23

Post by marco »

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 19 by marco]

Your comments are so shallow that I shouldn't even bother with them, but I can't help myself because you so obviously shrug off the scriptures that are shown to you that prove my points. How can you totally disregard 2 Peter 3:8???

I'm sorry my comments on time being relative are shallow. I think perhaps Peter was ignorant of Kepler's Third Law of planetary motion. He says:

"Be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years."


We could use this valuable information to calculate how far heaven is physically from the Earth. Perhaps Jehovah's Witnesses have already done this. It is not a question of Peter being wrong; his words are poetic, not literal.

Elijah John
Savant
Posts: 12235
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:23 pm
Location: New England
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Post #24

Post by Elijah John »

bluethread wrote: I agree with 2ndRateMind. These things constitute a common regression in human experience. I am of the opinion that the purpose of the revelation is not to give clues as to when to start building your bomb shelter. I believe tit's purpose is to encourage Adonai's people to reject the ways of the nations and return to Adonai's ways.
As well as a call to repentance, wasn't the purpose of the book to shore up morale in the face of Roman persecution of the early Church?

Also, isn't it important not to get bogged down in predictive details, (which seems to be an industry unto itself nowadays) and just to know that "the good guys win" in the end?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 20501
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 336 times
Contact:

Post #25

Post by otseng »

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 19 by marco]

Your comments are so shallow that I shouldn't even bother with them, but I can't help myself because you so obviously shrug off the scriptures that are shown to you that prove my points. How can you totally disregard 2 Peter 3:8???

.
:warning: Moderator Final Warning

Please avoid the personal remarks about others.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator final warnings serve as the last strike towards users. Additional violations will result in a probation vote. Further infractions will lead to banishment. Any challenges or replies to moderator warnings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Post #26

Post by onewithhim »

McCulloch wrote:
onewithhim wrote:To McCulloch and 2nd-rateMind: Jesus' "coming quickly" 2,000 years from when those words were penned should not cause a problem for us humans. We recognize that to God and Jesus and the angels time is experienced in a different manner than the way humans do. Jehovah has ALWAYS existed, and Jesus for untold billions of years, so how would 2,000 years seem to them? Undoubtedly as a very short period of time? Actually, the Bible says that to Jehovah "one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2Peter 3:8)
The Revelation of John was written to humans. So let's make the assumption that the words used have meaning to humans not to Angels. Please contrast where the prophet Daniel is told seal up his prophesies because they would be a long time (Daniel 12). Whatever your interpretation of the prophesies of Daniel and John are, surely the short time for John has to be shorter than the long time for Daniel.
I would say no. Daniel is a book that basically parallels the Revelation. There is much info on this in the excellent book, Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy! by the WTBTS....only now it is out of print so the website www.jw.org would have the information. When Jesus said, "I am coming quickly," at Revelation 22:20, his viewpoint was certainly the same as when Daniel wrote about the Great Tribulation happening in "the time of the end." We of course understand "the time of the end" to be when Jesus "comes quickly, in the time of the end.

"In the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him [the king of the north] in a pushing....and there will certainly occur a time of distress [Great Tribulation] such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time." (Daniel 11:40, 12:1) So, the time of the end is when Jesus comes back, and whether he says "quickly" or indicates that it will be a long time, that is when he will come---at Armageddon. It hasn't happened yet, so obviously "quickly" to him is a long time to us.

.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Post #27

Post by onewithhim »

marco wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 19 by marco]

Your comments are so shallow that I shouldn't even bother with them, but I can't help myself because you so obviously shrug off the scriptures that are shown to you that prove my points. How can you totally disregard 2 Peter 3:8???

I'm sorry my comments on time being relative are shallow. I think perhaps Peter was ignorant of Kepler's Third Law of planetary motion. He says:

"Be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years."


We could use this valuable information to calculate how far heaven is physically from the Earth. Perhaps Jehovah's Witnesses have already done this. It is not a question of Peter being wrong; his words are poetic, not literal.
That's right! A thousand years is AS one day to God. It is fully a thousand years to mankind, but to Jehovah---who is eternal---they SEEM like one day.

You have brought out an excellent point, too. You say that Peter's words are "poetic, not literal." That means that you agree with me that his description of the world melting and being "burned up" are not literal, but poetic. Thank you.

.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Post #28

Post by onewithhim »

Elijah John wrote:
bluethread wrote: I agree with 2ndRateMind. These things constitute a common regression in human experience. I am of the opinion that the purpose of the revelation is not to give clues as to when to start building your bomb shelter. I believe tit's purpose is to encourage Adonai's people to reject the ways of the nations and return to Adonai's ways.
As well as a call to repentance, wasn't the purpose of the book to shore up morale in the face of Roman persecution of the early Church?

Also, isn't it important not to get bogged down in predictive details, (which seems to be an industry unto itself nowadays) and just to know that "the good guys win" in the end?
Revelation was written to ALL of Christ's followers, right up to and including the parts about Jesus conquering the armies of the earth and ushering in Paradise on Earth. It couldn't have been just for the Christians dealing with Roman persecution in the first century, because we haven't seen Jesus getting rid of the governments of the earth and their armies yet, and Paradise certainly hasn't been achieved as yet. (Revelation 19:11-21; 20:1,2)

It's important to know to whom the Revelation was written. If we don't understand that, how can we be "happy," as chapter 1 and verse 3 brings out? "Happy is he who reads aloud and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and who observe the things written in it."

.

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 8904
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1217 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Post #29

Post by onewithhim »

otseng wrote:
onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 19 by marco]

Your comments are so shallow that I shouldn't even bother with them, but I can't help myself because you so obviously shrug off the scriptures that are shown to you that prove my points. How can you totally disregard 2 Peter 3:8???

.
:warning: Moderator Final Warning

Please avoid the personal remarks about others.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator final warnings serve as the last strike towards users. Additional violations will result in a probation vote. Further infractions will lead to banishment. Any challenges or replies to moderator warnings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
I do apologize once again.

It is so difficult to control my consternation when reading terrible put-downs of God and the Bible as well as derogatory remarks about my viewpoints....

.

Zzyzx
Site Supporter
Posts: 25089
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Bible Belt USA
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Post #30

Post by Zzyzx »

.
onewithhim wrote: It is so difficult to control my consternation when reading terrible put-downs of God and the Bible as well as derogatory remarks about my viewpoints....
To all Members:

Being uncivil to others for differing with one's preferences or beliefs is simply not tolerated here. In the C&A sub-forum (the most active and popular) NO religions or viewpoints are 'sacred' and none are given preferential treatment.

An occasional emotional outburst may be tolerated (perhaps with Moderator Comment or Warning), BUT persistent, repeated outbursts are NOT.

In real life we all find it necessary (even if difficult) to control emotions -- and generally manage to do so well enough to be appropriate (most of the time). Most of us know it is unacceptable to attack people because they differ with our preferences and arouse passions.

In the anonymity of the Internet some people allow their emotions to run amok. This Forum does not allow that to continue -- so some people are banned for repeated uncivil remarks.

Those who are particularly sensitive about the Bible or their beliefs would be well advised to avoid the C&A sub-forum in favor of Holy Huddle, TD&D, or other sub-forums that offer more protection for religious views (and in some cases do not allow Non-Christians to post).
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

Post Reply