Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse mentioned in the book of Revelation (chapter 6) represent Jesus (first) and the present world conditions (horsemen 2 through 4) particularly in evidence since 1914

What, do you think the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are and why?


My question really is directed to those that believe that the book of Revelation does have some kind of spiritual meaning.

[2ndRateMind]

The four horsemen have been riding since 1914 when the unprecedented world war broke out.

Are you suggesting that there was no war, famine, pestilence or death before 1914? My reading of history suggests otherwise.

I don't doubt that the Great War, the so called war to end all wars, was significant in its scale, political philosophy and the application of industrial technology to the end of mass murder, but I do not think it different in principle to anything that preceded or succeeded it.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[onewithhim]

The four horsemen have been riding since 1914 when the unprecedented world war broke out.

Are you suggesting that there was no war, famine, pestilence or death before 1914? My reading of history suggests otherwise.

I don't doubt that the Great War, the so called war to end all wars, was significant in its scale, political philosophy and the application of industrial technology to the end of mass murder, but I do not think it different in principle to anything that preceded or succeeded it.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Of course I was not suggesting that there had been no war, famine, pestilence or death before 1914! All of that was amplified and went on at an UNPRECEDENTED rate and manner. Even historians say that "the world went mad in 1914." (Will Durant)

[2ndRateMind]

Of course I was not suggesting that there had been no war, famine, pestilence or death before 1914! All of that was amplified and went on at an UNPRECEDENTED rate and manner.

Indeed. But I am looking for a difference in quality, not quantity. Quality would imply some spiritual difference, that would require some significant agency to account for it. Quantity can be explained away by mere advances in technology.

Even historians say that "the world went mad in 1914." (Will Durant)

I don't think it did. I think the powers that be were simply and rationally pursuing what they perceived to be their best interests. And that is a more damning, more scary indictment of them.

If any question why we died
Say because our fathers lied.

Rudyard Kipling 1915

Best wishes, 2RM.

[bluethread]

I agree with 2ndRateMind. These things constitute a common regression in human experience. I am of the opinion that the purpose of the revelation is not to give clues as to when to start building your bomb shelter. I believe tit's purpose is to encourage Adonai's people to reject the ways of the nations and return to Adonai's ways.

[McCulloch]

Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, “Come.� I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come.� And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.

When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, “Come.� I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine.�

When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come.� I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.

However you interpret these words, it must be done in this context:

And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true�; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.

“And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book.�

I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.�

And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.�

“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.�

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.�

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.� And let the one who hears say, “Come.� And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.� Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

Emphasis added.

[2ndRateMind]

Perhaps so. But if so, Jesus has been coming (again) quickly for a long time. At least since the Bible was finally assembled around 400AD. One is entitled to be sceptical around those who think the second coming is imminent, based only on their interpretation of Revelations.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[marco]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse mentioned in the book of Revelation (chapter 6) represent Jesus (first) and the present world conditions (horsemen 2 through 4) particularly in evidence since 1914.

It seems to me that your case is destroyed by your inclusion of what seem to me to be silly pictures from a Boy's Own Comic book. I thought images and idols were frowned on- so such speculative pictures should surely incur some censure.

In kindness, we can take the 4 horse riders, rather than tank drivers, to be figurative, born of an age and a mentality when horses would be used to fight. To bring them into 21st century conversation, calling one of the horsemen Jesus, is just ludicrous. Yes, it's funny, but I don't suppose it's meant to be. Can we return to seriousness?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 16 by 2ndRateMind]

To McCulloch and 2nd-rateMind: Jesus' "coming quickly" 2,000 years from when those words were penned should not cause a problem for us humans. We recognize that to God and Jesus and the angels time is experienced in a different manner than the way humans do. Jehovah has ALWAYS existed, and Jesus for untold billions of years, so how would 2,000 years seem to them? Undoubtedly as a very short period of time? Actually, the Bible says that to Jehovah "one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2Peter 3:8)

.

[marco]

We recognize that to God and Jesus and the angels time is experienced in a different manner than the way humans do.

We recognise no such thing; time would presumably be meaningless with nothing for it to relate to.

It is wrong, ten times over, to regard the words of Christ in this way, as though Jesus forgot for a moment that he was on Planet Earth and slipped in a temporal phrase that was meaningless to earthlings. This argument lacks any kind of sense, and if one bases one's beliefs on such reasoning, then the beliefs are not worth much.

"I'll be back soon. Oops, sorry, I'm speaking in celestial mode." As if!!!

[JehovahsWitness]

Traditionally, the four horseman of the apocalypse are war, famine, pestilence and death. They are all related.

I would agree but are you saying the red horse would be famine? Why?


As I said, I would propose that the horses would be Jesus

[1] White/crown: Jesus
[2] Red: War
[3] Black: Famine
[4] Pale: Premature Death

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SATAN THE DEVIL , , THE SECOND COMING * and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

*The Return of Christ