Hell's Immigrants

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Hell's Immigrants

Post #1

Post by WebersHome »

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According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

†. Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

†. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

†. Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Sept 18, 2017 @ 11:36 pm New York Time, the resident population in the United States was approximately 325,908,667 with a death rate of approximately one every 12 seconds; which translates to an average of 7,200 American deaths of all ages, races, and genders during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths are under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 5,234 of the current daily death rate per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage to 51%, would indicate a minimum of 2,670 American adults transferring to perdition every day: which translates to roughly 111 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think: by the time CBS completes its half hour evening news report, a bare-bones minimum of 55 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld.

Using the ratio of 2,670 condemned souls per 325,908,667 population: computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated global population of 7,422,223,068 people, would suggest something like 60,806 new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours; which translates to approximately 2,534 souls every sixty minutes on the clock.

That rate would fill the 51,800 seats of the new Yankee Stadium to capacity in roughly 20 hours and 44 minutes. In other words: if the world's daily number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this morning, then by 02:44 am tomorrow, the stadium would be full to capacity.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2% higher.

Christianity's hell never closes; no, not at all: it's open for business 24/7/365 nonstop and indifferent to global warming, Wall Street crashes, massive layoffs, outsourcing, high school shootings, terrorism, tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes, storm surges, nuclear meltdowns, air, water, and soil pollution, a mission to Mars, freeway pile-ups, brown-outs, threatened species, the price of oil, student debt, GMO, trade deficits, protests, Federal debt, factory recalls, outsourcing, overpopulation, desertification, genocides, revolutions, civil wars, acid rain, road rage, oil spills, conscious decoupling, ISIS, LGBT marriage, Obamacare, blood diamonds, fracking, twerking, and/or President Donald Trump's tweets.

If Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in an endless procession like the unbelievable millions of poultry broilers passing annually through Tyson chicken-processing plants on their way to Wendy's, McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Chic-fil-A, KFC, A&W, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and restaurants all over the USA and wherever else Tyson vends its meats. The slaughtering and the butchering never stop.
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Last edited by WebersHome on Sat May 30, 2020 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hell's Immigrants

Post #121

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If we allow that Peter is the rock upon which the Roman Catholic Church is built, and also allow that within the Roman Catholic Church's hierarchy the apostle Peter is supreme in matters related to faith and practice; then we must also allow that Catholics will be thoroughly judged for their every failure to know, and to comply, with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles-- 1&2Peter.

Failure to comply with Peter's instructions is all the same as failure to comply with Christ's. It's a domino effect all the way to the top.

â—� Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.

It matters little whether or not the apostle Peter is actually the rock that Jesus spoke of at Matt 16:18. That debate is a red herring and a waste of perfectly good forum bytes.

What matters most to Catholics is whether they themselves sincerely believe Peter is that rock because then they are obligated to submit to his authority and comply with everything that Peter taught in his two epistles.

It's a terrible tragedy indeed for those Catholics who all their lives defended Peter's supremacy only to end up in hell because they didn't listen to him.

â—� Matt 16:19 . . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
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[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 840 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 51,077,040 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

Post #122

Post by WebersHome »

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â—� Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Back in the mid 1960s-- when I was a young single guy around 24 years old living solo in a tiny rented room in a family home's daylight basement --I had lots of time to myself to think about things since I had no friends, nor any kind of social contact whatsoever other than at work. I wasn't distracted with a girl friend, nor by pals and beer buddies, nor by an obsessive hobby. It was just me, my 1961 Volkswagen, and a 305 Honda motorcycle that I rode all over northwest Oregon.

I thought about Hell a lot back in those days; and the very real possibility of my ending up there. It occurred to me at the time that it would be a whole lots easier to comply with God's wishes if only I were like Him instead of like me. Doing bad is easy for me because I'm bad without thinking about it whereas doing good is a fight against nature. If only I could do good as naturally as God does good; I'd have it made.

Another thought crossed my mind back in those days. Let's assume that I could somehow manage to be pious enough in this lifetime to qualify for Heaven. Then what? I was pretty sure I could never manage to be pious for all eternity: possibly in this life, but certainly never in the next; no, I could never keep it up forever. Sooner or later my true colors would show themselves.

I envied people like Moses because he had Heaven in the bag while I had no clue about my future; though I was fairly sure that for me, Hell was pretty much a foregone conclusion.

I didn't know it at the time, but I was very fortunate to be thinking those kinds of thoughts because right around then I ran across a solution to my problem in the Old Testament that says:

"I will take you from among the nations and gather you from all the countries, and I will bring you to your land. And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you will be clean; from all your impurities and from all your abominations will I cleanse you.

. . . And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My spirit within you and bring it about that you will walk in My statutes and you will keep My ordinances and do them." (Ezek 36:24-27)

Those promises were made to the Jews so of course I, being a Gentile, couldn't expect God to let me in on them. But just think of the tremendous advantages that passage speaks of. Whereas I am normally and naturally impious, with those promises in hand I could become just the opposite, viz: I could become normally and naturally pious. Ezek 36:24-27 really perked me up and lifted my spirits because it gave me a light at the end of the tunnel whereas before then, I had none.

Eph 2:11-22 tells how that God has a way for Gentiles to share in the Jews' benefits. The light at the end of the tunnel spoken of above is available to everyone on Earth regardless of age, race, color, or gender; which the apostle Peter sums up by saying:

"Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has given us everything we need for life and piety through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness. Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature." (2Pet 1:2-4)
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[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 851 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 51,745,906 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

Post #123

Post by WebersHome »

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â—� Eccl 12:7 . .Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The second half of that passage is what interests me the most because Adam's body was made of the dust of the earth, but his soul wasn't made like that. According to Gen 2:7, the breath of life made Adam's soul.

So; I think it's fairly safe to assume that where Ecc 12:7 says that the spirit shall return to God, it's talking about God laying claim to a dead person's soul; and that is a very, very unnerving proposition.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Heb 10:31)

According to Matt 10:28, assassins can take the life of a man's body, but they are powerless to take the life of a man's soul; which means that a man's death doesn't terminate his existence; there's still God to reckon with.

â—� Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Greek word for "hell" in that verse isn't hades, it's geena (gheh' en-nah) i.e. the sum of all fears. So then, the rich man incarcerated in hades as per Luke 16:19-31 still has his soul and won't lose it till he's transferred to geena during the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where people will undergo a gruesome termination akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

â—� Matt 16:26 . .What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

There are far too many people on internet forums casually discussing the sum of all fears as if they're in a Jane Austen book club discussing a chapter of Pride And Prejudice. Well; let me say to those grasshoppers: the hades described in Luke 16:19-31 is bad enough, but the geena of Isa 66:23-24, Matt 10:28, and Mark 9:43-48 is much worse because it's in there where people lose their human souls and quite possibly given a demonic soul in exchange.

I'm not claiming the part I said about a demonic soul is true; I'm only suggesting it's a distinct possibility because the lake of fire wasn't initially constructed for humans, rather it was initially constructed for the Devil and his angels. (Matt 25:41)
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[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 852 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 51,806,712 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

Post #124

Post by WebersHome »

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[font=Georgia]FAQ[/font][font=Verdana]: Seeing as how Satan is harvesting more souls than Christ, then he'll get the last laugh won't he? Like "LOL, I got more than You!"[/font]

[font=Georgia]A[/font][font=Verdana]: I don't expect Satan to do much gloating. He's a narcissistic alpha male; which is a personality that feels very strongly it's not good enough to win; everyone else must lose, viz: people like him will not settle for a market share, no, they will settle for nothing less than the whole market. In their thinking, anything less than 100% market share makes them feel inadequate and less than a success. Were you to ask them what number would satisfy them; they'd likely answer: More.

In Satan's mind "more than you" isn't enough to cheer him up for an LOL. Anything less than all is nothing to brag about because in his mind, there are no second place winners. Ergo, any souls taken by Christ, no matter how few in number, are painful for Satan because that massive ego of his can't, and won't, tolerate the reduction of even one soul in his inventory. In a mind like Satan's, Christ is a thief taking things for himself that rightfully don't belong to him.

According to Rev 12:12, the Devil's final hours characterize him in a very disagreeable mood.

You know; it's not easy to be a devil. The poor creature is stuck with a personality that allows him very little peace of mind, if any.
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[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 860 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 52,293,160 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.
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Hell's Immigrants

Post #125

Post by WebersHome »

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â—� Gen 3:19 . . By the sweat of your brow shall you get bread to eat, until you return to the ground-- for from it you were taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return.

Did God have to smite Adam in order for him to stop living? No; it was only necessary to deny Adam access to the tree of life and let nature and hard work take their toll. In other words: since he was no longer immortal due to tasting the forbidden fruit, it would be only a matter of time before Adam simply gave out and passed away from wear and tear and old age.

But what happened to Adam when his body returned to dust? Did he return to dust too? No; and that's because Adam wasn't entirely organic. His body came from the soil; but according to Gen 2:7, his consciousness came from God. The afterlife disposition of human consciousness is one of life's greatest mysteries. Heck, even the origin of human consciousness is mystery enough for some, let alone where it goes when people pass away.
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[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 891 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 54,178,146 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

Post #126

Post by WebersHome »

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Were I to be asked my opinion what might be an attitude that is just about guaranteed to put people on the road to hell, my answer would have to be indifference.

â—� Heb 5:8-11 . .Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him-- called of God an high priest after the order of Melchizedek; of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

"dull of hearing" refers to a lack of interest, viz: indifference; for example:

â—� Zech 7:11-12 . . But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear. Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which The Lord of hosts hath sent in His spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from The Lord of hosts.

Again:

â—� Matt 13:13-15 . .Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which says: "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

. . . For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them."

And again:

â—� John 3:19-21 . .This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
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[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 899 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 54,664,594 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

Post #127

Post by WebersHome »

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â—� Gen 6:3 . . And the Lord said: My Spirit shall not strive with man forever for they are only mortal flesh.

The problem with flesh is it's brevity. The human body eventually loses its vigor, so God has a limited amount of time to work with people before they pass on. Were humans immortal, He would have ample time to reason with them; but alas, without access to the tree of life, such is not the case.
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[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 919 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 54,880,714 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

Post #128

Post by WebersHome »

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"It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels' sin unforgivable. There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death." (CCC 393)

That quote is taken from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Well; I don't really know just how true it is, but Jesus said something that suggests very strongly to me that Rome just might be spot-on.

â—� John 8:21-24 . . Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."

. . .This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?"

. . . But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins.
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[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 955 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 58,069,730 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

Post #129

Post by WebersHome »

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[font=Georgia]FAQ[/font][font=Verdana]: Are there any non religious ways to heaven?[/font]

[font=Georgia]A[/font][font=Verdana]: Surgery.

â—� Matt 19:12 . . For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

â—� Matt 5:29 . . If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

â—� Matt 5:30 . . And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell.
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[font=Times New Roman]Immigration Update[/font][font=verdana]: 966 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 58,738,596 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Sept 18, 2017.
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Re: Hell's Immigrants

Post #130

Post by Charles »

WebersHome wrote:"It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels' sin unforgivable. There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death." (CCC 393)
Why is some sin unforgivable causing eternal sinfulness?

Please consider the contentions of Pre-Conception Existence theology (PCE):
YHWH created everyone in HIS image innocent with a free will and the perfect ability and opportunity to put their faith in HIS claims to be our GOD and in the Son as the only saviour from sin
OR
to put their faith in him being as a false god and a liar, repudiating HIS claims and any need for salvation at all. This is the unforgivable sin.

Our free will allowed some to reject HIM and so put themselves outside of HIS mercy, grace and love for eternity because their free will was destroyed by three things:
1. their enslavement to sin by choosing evil, ie, they can never repent on their own and thus save themselves. Since GOD could not help them becasue HE would not force them to repent agasint their will, they were stuck.

2. When their choice to reject GOD as a false GOD was proven wrong (by HIS creation of the physical universe) it meant their "free" will was now coerced by the knowledge of HIS deity so they could never choose to accept HIM as GOD by a free will, which was a necessity for salvation and they could now never again choose HIM by faith because what is proven is no longer faith: Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith is hope. Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? This faith / hope saves if it is not based upon proof (ie what is seen).

3. Their choice to totally repudiate HIM by their free will is sacrosanct, unchangeable by anyone or it is not a free will in the least. The sins of the sinful elect are indeed changed into repentance but that is against their sinful will, not their free will which accepted HIS working in their lives.

Thus the demonic are condemned by their refusal to accept YHWH as their GOD, putting themselves outside of all HIS promises and self creating themselves as demons and devils eternally unable to fulfill HIS purpose in their creation, fit only to be discarded.
So committed were they to their enmity to YHWH they even refused the strategy of the sinful elect - ie, to put their faith in HIM until they were safe from hell by HIS promise of election and only then to choose to rebel against HIM - as too unfitting their total repudiation of all HE claimed and stood for. They had no need to be safe from hell because they believed deeply that sin and hell and the need for a saviour was all bogus, all lies to manipulate them into false worship.

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