The Heresy of Atheism

[jeremiah1five]

Yes, it is true. Atheism is only a heresy. As a matter of fact, there is no such thing as "Atheism." In the claim that "I don't believe there is a God" is the very declaration that there is a God. So, not only is atheism a lie it is a heresy for by saying "I don't believe in God" is the person declaring, "I don't believe in or that there is a God" they have declared the existence of God.

Their "I don't believe in God" is the declaration that I don't believe in 'that' or 'this' has declared there is a God, it's just their subjective position that they don't believe in Him.

There is no such thing as atheists and atheism.

So, don't worry.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 1 by jeremiah1five]

Aha, but in your utterance "atheism is only a heresy," include the very declaration that "atheism is!" Checkmate theists.

[rikuoamero]

Let me guess...self-styled atheists such as myself should be met with punishments?

[marco]

Their "I don't believe in God" is the declaration that I don't believe in 'that' or 'this' has declared there is a God, it's just their subjective position that they don't believe in Him.

There is no such thing as atheists and atheism.

So, don't worry.

If I understand your argument, the declaration : "I don't believe that there is X" is paralleled with "I don't believe that" where "that" now becomes a new part of speech, a pronoun in fact, representing something. All very well but the original statement does not involve a pronoun. You have changed the terms.


I don't believe that there is a last prime number is a perfectly good thing not to believe. The statement itself doesn't in any way indicate there IS a last prime number, which would be wrong.

[ElCodeMonkey]

[Replying to post 1 by jeremiah1five]

Yeah, by that logic, if you say you don't believe in the flying spaghetti monster you suddenly now do believe in it. Not a logically sound argument by any stretch.

[William]

[Replying to post 1 by jeremiah1five]

Atheism is lacking belief in any ideas of GOD-creator-of-the-universe beings.

Strong atheists believe that GODs do not exist.

As such, it may be that default atheism is agnosticism in that the atheist does not know if GODs exist of not, and lacks belief either way. Whereas, strong atheism declares that no GODs exist thus has belief one way and not the other, therefore is no longer agnostic, having shifted positions.

[ElCodeMonkey]

it may be that default atheism is agnosticism in that the atheist does not know if GODs exist of not, and lacks belief either way. Whereas, strong atheism declares that no GODs exist thus has belief one way and not the other, therefore is no longer agnostic, having shifted positions.

I consider myself atheist for believing that no God's exist yet still holding that "I don't know." Any atheist should say "I don't know" but then be willing to say they believe that it is not the case despite not knowing for a fact. I've never heard of a "strong" atheist, but perhaps that is someone who claims to "know" that God does not exist which is just a silly statement. No one could know that. Agnostic is one who also does not know but doesn't particularly care or hold an opinion one way or the other. At least, that's my understanding of it.

[marco]

No one could know that. Agnostic is one who also does not know but doesn't particularly care or hold an opinion one way or the other. At least, that's my understanding of it.

Yes I agree that agnosticism is the logical position where a god of any sort is concerned. When it comes to Jehovah I feel we can be a bit bolder and pronounce with confidence that he's a fiction; we can see the seams in his garments. He's not as well made as Zeus, nor half as interesting.

Believing man is the best computer on offer is regularly challenged nowadays, even on our dust speck called Earth. So it is not hard to imagine beings so much brighter than ourselves that we might call them gods.


As far as onus on searching is concerned - the sighted being should find the blind; if God has all the answers, why would dust particles have any duty to search for him? He would declare his existence and if he didn't it might be he doesn't want to be known, so we leave it there.

Of course there will always be a favoured few who see him through a glass darkly. We don't know where the glass came from.

[William]

[Replying to post 7 by ElCodeMonkey]

I consider myself atheist for believing that no God's exist yet still holding that "I don't know."

I consider that the things I don't know do not allow me to assert through statements that imply that I do indeed know.

If I don't know that GOD(s) exist, I refrain from making statements which imply that I do know.
If I believe that GOD(s) don't exist, then I regard belief as not knowing, and thus would not makes statements which imply that I know GOD(s) do not exist.

Perhaps the truth is, our not knowing one way or the other, makes agnostics of us all.

Any atheist should say "I don't know" but then be willing to say they believe that it is not the case despite not knowing for a fact.

That is what is known as a strong/hard atheist.

This because the default is "Lacks belief in GOD(s)".
Someone who adds "I lack belief in GODs and also believe GODs do not exist" changes their position.

I've never heard of a "strong" atheist,...

[google search
=strong+atheism]

...but perhaps that is someone who claims to "know" that God does not exist which is just a silly statement.

This may have something to do with not seeing any empirical evidence which supports the existence of GODs. No evidence = a type of knowledge.

Agnostic is one who also does not know but doesn't particularly care or hold an opinion one way or the other. At least, that's my understanding of it.

Agnostics can and do care and can and do have opinions about it.

[Tcg]

No one could know that. Agnostic is one who also does not know but doesn't particularly care or hold an opinion one way or the other. At least, that's my understanding of it.

Yes I agree that agnosticism is the logical position where a god of any sort is concerned.

If we accept that agnosticism is the view that the existence of God is unknown or unknowable.

And if we accept that atheism is the lack of belief in gods, then it seems to me that atheism is equally logical.

If not, we'd have to accept that believing in that which is unknowable is logical.

It may be comforting to believe in the unknowable, but not logical.