I am not a theologian and am very ignorant of theology in general. I am still a beginner if I am to be honest with myself.
Still, I do have certain beliefs, such as that the Bible is true.
One thing that has been on my mind which has troubled me is whether Christ died for all men, or not. It seems as though, if God is obligated to save, or at least try to save everyone, than that infringes upon his Sovereignty and Freedom. He after all has the right to make one kind of vessel for honor and another for dishonor (Romans 9:21). Given the nature of our fallen world, and how low man is capable of sinking into depravity, it seems to presume upon God's will to adhere to universalism or even to unlimited atonement. The fact that God at all allows men to harden their own hearts, seems grist for the mill to deny that God has it in mind to NECESSARILY save all as a foregone conclusion....
And yet, if God is of the nature of infinite Love, of infinite compassion, and if he is truly the Savior "of all men, especially of those who believe" (1 Timothy 4:10) then, although perhaps not as a foregone conclusion, we may at least hope for the possibility that God will, as a practical inevitability, save all men, because such an action simply aligns with his Nature and thus disposes him to such a decision. This is what I believe, roughly, as a sort of practical universalist.
Open to feedback.
God's Sovereignty and Man's Salvation
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Dimmesdale
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Re: God's Sovereignty and Man's Salvation
Post #2[Replying to post 1 by Dimmesdale]
I'm not much of a theologian, myself, although I am an avid Bible student.
If you believe the Bible is true, then the Bible clearly says
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:1-4)
As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
(Luke 3:4-6)
1Co_15:22Â For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Try to save? Obligated? His only obligation is that He is a God, who cannot lie, whose word does not come back to Him empty, whose word goes forth and accomplishes His purpose, not for our sakes, but for His own Words sake does He do that. He speaks and it is.... therefore He cannot lie... just like a programmer. Once he puts in the coding, the interface does what it is instructed to do, no matter what keys you hit to try and stop it. That word has gone forth.
Even so, God does permit choice. A man can opt out. But before he could make that choice, he would have to have a clear understanding of exactly what He was giving up. (For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6)) But those who fall in that category would be very few.
According to the Bible, if one is so inclined...
Soj
I'm not much of a theologian, myself, although I am an avid Bible student.
If you believe the Bible is true, then the Bible clearly says
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:1-4)
As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
(Luke 3:4-6)
1Co_15:22Â For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Try to save? Obligated? His only obligation is that He is a God, who cannot lie, whose word does not come back to Him empty, whose word goes forth and accomplishes His purpose, not for our sakes, but for His own Words sake does He do that. He speaks and it is.... therefore He cannot lie... just like a programmer. Once he puts in the coding, the interface does what it is instructed to do, no matter what keys you hit to try and stop it. That word has gone forth.
Even so, God does permit choice. A man can opt out. But before he could make that choice, he would have to have a clear understanding of exactly what He was giving up. (For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6)) But those who fall in that category would be very few.
According to the Bible, if one is so inclined...
Soj
