A Frank Conversation With Frank

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Jagella
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A Frank Conversation With Frank

Post #1

Post by Jagella »

About two months ago a neighbor of mine, "Vera," paid me a visit. She was upset telling me that she's worried about me. I got what she meant because I know she's a Christian, and Christians are taught that unbelievers are going to hell, and they are in league with the Devil. Vera is a lonely, poorly educated, elderly woman who is emotionally vulnerable and an easy target for scammers.

Despite the odds against my being able to reason with Vera, I tried my best anyway. I asked her if she's giving money to the Christians who have taught her the tripe she believes, and she replied that she is indeed giving them money. I told her that if they were really telling her the truth, then they wouldn't be grabbing her money. She's living off of Social Security, and she has no money to throw away. I explained that the biggest scam is to promise people the world and then tell them it will cost them some cash.

I then made up my mind to let these people know that they're hurting people. I'm fed up with Christians telling me I'm a bad person just because I don't believe what they do. The clergy is largely responsible for this filling people's heads full of lies that divide people and fill them with hate for people for no other reason than that those people don't believe the lies that Christians sell.

I soon got my wish. A man named Frank soon paid me a visit. He calls himself a "Bible instructor," and he represents a Christian group called Amazing Facts Bible Studies. I told him about Vera and how they got her upset. I also told him that they shouldn't be taking money from her. If they really represent an all-powerful God, then they wouldn't need to pan-handle money from elderly women living on a fixed income!

Frank was not happy with what I told him, and I honestly feel bad that I needed to say what I did. But there just comes a time when we need to speak out against those who take advantage of vulnerable people. Telling people nonsense that sets them at odds with other people who are doing no wrong is just plain stupid and divisive.

How can any decent person disagree with me on this issue?

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Re: A Frank Conversation With Frank

Post #2

Post by Adstar »

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

I will disagree with you one one point..

You said::

I'm fed up with Christians telling me I'm a bad person just because I don't believe what they do. The clergy is largely responsible for this filling people's heads full of lies that divide people and fill them with hate for people for no other reason than that those people don't believe the lies that Christians sell.


Now you gave the example of Vera your neighbor

"Vera," paid me a visit. She was upset telling me that she's worried about me. I got what she meant because I know she's a Christian


It seems from your report that Vera actually cares enough about you that she is worried for you.. It does not seem that Vera Hates you at all.. So we have your contention that Christians are taught to hate people who do not believe as they do then you give us an example of a Christian who cares for you and worries about your eternal destination..

Can you see how these two points are not consistent..

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Jagella
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Re: A Frank Conversation With Frank

Post #3

Post by Jagella »

Adstar wrote: ...you gave the example of Vera your neighbor

"Vera," paid me a visit. She was upset telling me that she's worried about me. I got what she meant because I know she's a Christian


It seems from your report that Vera actually cares enough about you that she is worried for you.. It does not seem that Vera Hates you at all.. So we have your contention that Christians are taught to hate people who do not believe as they do then you give us an example of a Christian who cares for you and worries about your eternal destination..

Can you see how these two points are not consistent..
I know Vera. She has a complex personality. She can be friendly at some times and cold and distant at other times. I'm not sure if these mood swings result from her Christian beliefs or not, but her Christian beliefs sure don't help!

Anyway, I can do without any love that upsets people about me for no good reason and that blinds them to the fact that I'm a good man living a good life. I'd prefer a love that inspires people to recognize the good qualities of my life.

If you wish, I can post some examples of hatred for unbelievers that results from seeing them as hell-bound.

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Post #4

Post by William »

William: What would you like to see Vera do?

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Post #5

Post by Jagella »

William wrote: William: What would you like to see Vera do?
That's a great question. At the very least I'd like her to stop giving her money to religious hucksters. I'd also like to see her change her attitude toward people who don't share her religious beliefs. She should recognize that we can disagree without seeing the other side as evil or doomed.

At the very most, I'd love to see Vera get out of religion completely and learn to live a good life without it like I do.

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Post #6

Post by William »

William: On a scale of 1-10 (ten being best) what do you think your chances are with succeeding in convincing Vera to do any of these things?

1: stop giving her money to religious hucksters

2: change her attitude toward people who don't share her religious beliefs

3: get out of religion completely and learn to live a good life without it

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Re: A Frank Conversation With Frank

Post #7

Post by 1213 »

Jagella wrote: …Vera is a lonely, poorly educated, elderly woman who is emotionally vulnerable and an easy target for scammers…
What makes you think she is vulnerable and easy target? What if she really wants to do freely what she does?
Jagella wrote:… I told her that if they were really telling her the truth, then they wouldn't be grabbing her money. …
I agree that they should not grab her money, because:

...Freely you received, so freely give.
Matt. 10:8

But then, maybe Vera also thinks that freely she has received and that is why she freely gives. And probably the whole idea of someone grabbing her money is your imagination and a lie. :D
Jagella wrote:…Telling people nonsense that sets them at odds with other people who are doing no wrong is just plain stupid and divisive…
I agree, I hope you also stop telling nonsense that sets people at odds with other people.

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Re: A Frank Conversation With Frank

Post #8

Post by Menotu »

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

Fortunately (unfortunately?) this world is made up of all kinds of people. To live in it, you have to deal with some, enjoy others, and still ignore even more.
I've found that, truly good people, believers or not, will see the good in people and act accordingly. I know several Christians from my previous church and when I see them, even though I'm not longer a Christian, they are still friendly and smile and we hug and enjoy our company. I also know many that are the exact opposite (well, truthfully, those opposites are, thankfully, not many but a few).

But what happens many times, is when you confront someone with something they know to be true, that threatens their beliefs honestly, they get defensive (this goes for everyone regardless of belief). That's just how some people are.

Just gotta' live your life and keep on keepin' on as best you can. Be friends with those you can and not with those you can't. Everything else will work out on its own.

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Re: A Frank Conversation With Frank

Post #9

Post by amortalman »

Jagella wrote:
About two months ago a neighbor of mine, "Vera," paid me a visit. She was upset telling me that she's worried about me. I got what she meant because I know she's a Christian, and Christians are taught that unbelievers are going to hell, and they are in league with the Devil. Vera is a lonely, poorly educated, elderly woman who is emotionally vulnerable and an easy target for scammers.

Despite the odds against my being able to reason with Vera, I tried my best anyway. I asked her if she's giving money to the Christians who have taught her the tripe she believes, and she replied that she is indeed giving them money. I told her that if they were really telling her the truth, then they wouldn't be grabbing her money. She's living off of Social Security, and she has no money to throw away. I explained that the biggest scam is to promise people the world and then tell them it will cost them some cash.
I read with interest your experience with your neighbor, Vera. It left me wondering if you asked her why she was worried about you. If you did not ask you must have assumed that it was because she thinks you're a heathen and will bust hell wide open. You could very have been right in your assumption, but it just seems to me that the reason for her worry would have been a good place for you to continue the conversation instead of changing the subject to her practice of giving money to Christian causes.

I also wonder if she was giving her money to televangelists or to her local church. If she was giving to the former then they probably didn't know her financial situation, not that they would care anyway. Do you know how much she was giving? It might have been a small amount. In your judgment (and mine) it is a waste of money, but who are we to tell another person who they should give to? Undoubtedly, it gave her some comfort to give. Bottom line is to live and let live, IMHO.

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Post #10

Post by otseng »

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