illogical atheism?

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cristian_gavrilescu
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illogical atheism?

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Post by cristian_gavrilescu »

who made christianity and why? who made the old testament and why? you don't believe in Lord Jesus, so someone lied and made the new testament for an evil reason, according to your opinion. those who lied, they believed in evolution? or other gods? because God and evolution are the only solutions that explain our existence. so there is this possibility, some ancient men believed in evolution but they hid that until darwin bringing to the public, so darwin ruins their plan and you the same, to be liars forever because we die, they can't enjoy of "masterplan", makes perfect sense, the irony. the old testament could be made for the same reason or made by lunatics. again, this makes perfect sense, irony again. in conclusion, darwin was an outlaw, ancient men believed in evolution, or other gods and they lied to us, making us believe in Lord Jesus. perfect sense (irony).

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Re: illogical atheism?

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Post by Purple Knight »

cristian_gavrilescu wrote:you don't believe in Lord Jesus, so someone lied and made the new testament for an evil reason, according to your opinion.
I don't think anyone is necessarily a liar or evil in this scenario, though they could be, even if Jesus is everything the Bible says he is. Jesus's divinity does not preclude people using the story to get rich.

Jesus was probably, at very least, based on a real person. Today Christianity is huge and it generates a lot of money and influence, I would say particularly for the Catholics.

Now obviously, some people capitalised. That doesn't mean Jesus wasn't divine. Jesus could have been truly divine and people still would have capitalised.

Jesus could also have been just a person, and the people who wrote the New testament may have genuinely believed in him. They may not have wanted to capitalise. Their intentions may have been good.

Jesus was actually divine ≠ Everything anybody wrote or said about him was perfectly pure-intentioned and good.

Jesus was just a person ≠ Everything wrote or said about him was done with some nefarious intent.

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Re: illogical atheism?

Post #3

Post by Divine Insight »

cristian_gavrilescu wrote: who made christianity and why? who made the old testament and why?
The Hebrew culture made the old testament.

Why? Probably for the same reasons many other cultures created their God myths, from Greek mythology, to the Incas, the Aztecs and so on. There are tons of God myths. Hebrew mythology is merely one of them.

Christianity was created by the Romans. And it was instantiated as a religion by Roman decree. This is the basis of Roman Catholicism.

cristian_gavrilescu wrote: you don't believe in Lord Jesus, so someone lied and made the new testament for an evil reason, according to your opinion.
I don't see why it would have been made for an evil reason anymore than Greek mythology was made for an evil reason. People were just superstitious back then and didn't know much about the world. The Old Testament contains many obviously false stories of superstition. No need to call it evil. It's just ignorant, and even immoral in terms of today's broadly accepted secular ethics.
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: Those who lied, they believed in evolution? or other gods? because God and evolution are the only solutions that explain our existence.
Today evolution has won that war. The war is over, there are no more battles to be fought. The only hold-outs are religious zealots who cannot even offer rational explanations for the self-contradictory dogma they continue to cling to.
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: so there is this possibility, some ancient men believed in evolution but they hid that until darwin bringing to the public, so darwin ruins their plan and you the same, to be liars forever because we die, they can't enjoy of "masterplan", makes perfect sense, the irony. the old testament could be made for the same reason or made by lunatics. again, this makes perfect sense, irony again. in conclusion, darwin was an outlaw, ancient men believed in evolution, or other gods and they lied to us, making us believe in Lord Jesus. perfect sense (irony).
Your post seems to have deteriorated into an incoherent rant.

Evolution is true. Trying to deny evolution today is not much different from trying to deny the age of the earth, or that the earth is round. Or that the universe contains trillions of galaxies.

To continue to cling to Hebrew mythology you need to toss all of modern science out, including all the technological devices that science has made possible. You need to basically be in denial of reality.

I personally don't understand the motivation to support a clearly false and immoral ancient theology as you seem to be determined to do.

Also, you seem to be forgetting, or completely ignoring the truth.

The truth is that if there is a creator God as you would like to believe, then that God created mankind to be the way mankind currently is. Apparently you are the one who seems to have a problem with this. But obviously the creator God would have no problem with this at all since he would be the one who designed things to be this way.

You can hardly claim that there is a designing creator and then complain that you don't like the way the design turned out.

If there is a God, then the world is precisely as God had designed it to be. That has to be true.

Either that, or the God is either inept, or malicious. The God himself would have had to have designed humans to reject him. Trying to claim that humans are rejecting God because of their own free will choice doesn't even work.

The theology that you have embraced, has extreme problems of its own.

Finally, if neither Yahweh, nor Jesus were competent enough to convince mankind of their existence, then why on earth would you think that you could outdo both of them?

I read both the Old and New Testament. I'm not convinced by either Yahweh or Jesus.,

Let's assume that unlike those two failures, you could somehow rise above them and convince the non-believers of the truth of the Bible.

Think of what that would mean. It would mean that you would have succeeded at something that neither Yahweh, nor Jesus could do.

That potential paradox right there should convince you of the necessary fallacy of Hebrew mythology and Christian theology.

All you are doing in all of your posts is proclaiming the failures of Yahweh and Jesus to convince mankind of their existence.

That requires that they are extremely inept Gods. Necessarily so.

So it's a theology that is forever dead in the water. Trying to revive Christian theology is like beating on the ground where a horse had once died expecting to see the horse miraculously materialize and get up and start living again.
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Re: illogical atheism?

Post #4

Post by Zzyzx »

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cristian_gavrilescu wrote: who made christianity and why?
Paul/Saul and associates evidently made up Christianity to further their own interests and opinions.
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: who made the old testament and why?
Scores of unidentified ancient writers evidently made up the 'Old Testament' to promote their opinions regarding gods.
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: you don't believe in Lord Jesus,
No reason to get excited about a wandering Jewish preacher
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: so someone lied and made the new testament for an evil reason,
Repeating folklore isn't necessarily a lie (defined as deliberate deception). Repeated tales often grow to supernatural size (evidence Paul Bunyan)
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: according to your opinion. those who lied, they believed in evolution?
Bible writers were not likely to have had any ideas about evolution. Gregor Mendal and Charles Darwin came along thousands of years later.
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: or other gods?
Lots of other 'gods' available for worship.
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: because God and evolution are the only solutions that explain our existence.
It might have been Leprechauns that poofed humans into existence. There is no verifiable evidence that it was done by any of the 'gods'.
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: so there is this possibility, some ancient men believed in evolution but they hid that until darwin bringing to the public
Yup, a grand conspiracy theory
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: , so darwin ruins their plan and you the same,
Darwin certainly upset a lot of people (past and present)
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: to be liars forever because we die, they can't enjoy of "masterplan",
The civility of this Forum precludes calling people liars.
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: makes perfect sense,
Sure it does . . .
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: the irony. the old testament could be made for the same reason or made by lunatics.
It seems likely that religious tomes are produced by religious fanatics.
cristian_gavrilescu wrote: again, this makes perfect sense, irony again. in conclusion, darwin was an outlaw, ancient men believed in evolution, or other gods and they lied to us, making us believe in Lord Jesus. perfect sense (irony).
I suspect that you are attempting to make a point – but can't quite figure out what it might be.

Perhaps it would be prudent to start a blog somewhere rather than pontificating here where debate is the objective.
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Post #5

Post by cristian_gavrilescu »

if people who lived long time ago, didn't lie
they dreamed about it? what were their beliefs?
christianity was not welcomed, they fought without any material advantage

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Post #6

Post by PeterPan »

The first person to sort-of come up with the idea of evolution was the Greek philosopher Empedocles. Still, I don't think that any of the writers of the Bible believed in evolution.

Remember that back in those days it was not uncommon for stories to get passed around orally for generations before anyone bothered to write them down. Even if 99% of the population was honest and only 1% of the population was liable to twist the truth, if people only remembered the most dramatic and extraordinary stories then after a few generations have passed and thousands of stories have been told a great deal of mythology could have been built up.

As for the religious beliefs of the authors of the Bible, most of these authors would have believed the stories that they were compiling. Atheism was rare at the time, so the authors of the Bible almost certainly believed in at least one God. I say at least one because some of the earlier parts of the Old Testament suggest that there are many Gods and that Yahweh is the most important God.

The existence of Greek Mythology, Roman Mythology, Canaanite religions and so on suggest that it was possible for a few people in that era to deceive the masses with made-up stories.

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Post #7

Post by cristian_gavrilescu »

if you have a point i don't understand, too elusive

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Post by otseng »

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