I hate the word "Innocence."

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Dimmesdale
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I hate the word "Innocence."

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Post by Dimmesdale »

Innocence. I hate this word.

Why? Because it is the very opposite of non-dualism.

And yet many so-called non-dualistic schools of thought use it! (Such as ACIM)

Think about it: when you say that the world is innocent, or that the soul is innocent, or that you should treat everyone as innocent, you are not making a blanket, “all-good” statement. What you are saying is not absolute, not unconditional. It is particular. You are smuggling in a value judgment. For the opposite of innocent is guilty. And without guilt, there can be no innocence. The two depend on each other.

In a limited sense, innocence is good. In legal terms, it is a definite good. A definite good. Let that sink in. The state of being innocent is a certain status. If you are innocent, I treat you one way. But if you were not innocent, I would have no reason to treat you that way and may as well treat you in a completely different way. Total conditionality. The complete opposite of true forgiveness, actually. And hypocritical texts like ACIM preach it as Gospel!

Real forgiveness, real non-dualism, has nothing to do with the value judgment “innocent.” It is ALL-GOOD, the complete, unconditioned Good. And what does unconditioned mean? It means going over and beyond YOUR own preferential treatment of someone based on his or her STATUS: whether good, or bad, or neutral. It is to see others with truly equal vision. Not, of course, to dispense with practical matters of judgment, or conflating good and bad, but to transcend all such categories by realizing that ALL THINGS HAVE THEIR PLACE in the ultimate scheme of things. This, alone, is actual ACCEPTANCE. To accept means seeing and embracing reality as it is, warts and all, not merely a one-sided, fake, prissy, moral “goodness.” That is a violation of reality if ever there was one.

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Re: I hate the word "Innocence."

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Post by WebersHome »

.
FAQ: I hear that God wipes the slate when people believe the Christian gospel. What about sins that believers commit after that?

A: God stops keeping track.

2Cor 5:19 . . God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them

The Greek word translated "counting" is logizomai (log-id'-zom-ahee) which means to take an inventory; i.e. an indictment.

That's really good news because when the books are opened per Rev 20:11-15, there will be nothing in them that can in any way be used to prove that believing Christians have ever been anything less than 100% innocent.

Rom 4:8 . . Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him.
_

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Re: I hate the word "Innocence."

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Post by Miles »

Dimmesdale wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:29 pm Innocence. I hate this word.

Why? Because it is the very opposite of non-dualism.
Really!!


From Merriam Webster

Nondualism
1 : a doctrine of classic Brahmanism holding that the essential unity of all is real whereas duality and plurality are phenomenal illusion and that matter is materialized energy which in turn is the temporal manifestation of an incorporeal spiritual eternal essence constituting the innermost self of all things.

Innocence
in·​no·​cence | \ ˈi-nə-sən(t)s
a : freedom from legal guilt of a particular crime or offense
b : freedom from guilt or sin through being unacquainted with evil : blamelessness


From Psychology Wiki

Nondualism
Nondualism may initially be viewed as an -ism in order to find contexts for explanation. Among the meanings of -ism are belief, condition, theory, practice, quality.
Nondualism may be viewed as the belief that dualism or dichotomy are illusory phenomena. Examples of dualisms include self/other, mind/body, male/female, good/evil, active/passive, and many others.
A nondual philosophical or religious perspective or theory maintains that there is no fundamental distinction between mind and matter, or that the entire phenomenological world is an illusion (with reality being described variously as the Void, the Is, Emptiness, the mind of God, Atman or Brahman).

Innocence

Innocence is a term that describes the lack of guilt of an individual, with respect to a crime. It may also be used to indicate a general lack of guilt, with respect to any kind of crime, sin, or wrongdoing.
It can also refer to a state of unknowing, where one's experience is lesser, in either a relative view to social peers, or by an absolute comparison to a more common normative scale.


From Wikipedia

Nondualism
n spirituality, nondualism, also called non-duality, means "not two" or "one undivided without a second".[1][2] Nondualism primarily refers to a mature state of consciousness, in which the dichotomy of I-other is "transcended", and awareness is described as "centerless" and "without dichotomies". Although this state of consciousness may seem to appear spontaneous,[note 1] it usually follows prolonged preparation through ascetic or meditative/contemplative practice, which may include ethical injunctions.

Innocence
Innocence is a lack of guilt, with respect to any kind of crime, or wrongdoing. In a legal context, innocence is to the lack of legal guilt of an individual, with respect to a crime. In other contexts, it is a lack of experience.
Innocence can imply lesser experience in either a relative view to social peers, or by an absolute comparison to a more common normative scale.



I guess all it takes to make Innocence the direct opposite of Nondualism is to redefine the terms to fit one's needs, because their dictionary definitions certainly don't do it. ;)


Dimmesdale wrote: In a limited sense, innocence is good. In legal terms, it is a definite good. A definite good. Let that sink in.
How about we let the actual legal definition of "innocence" sink in?


Law: Legal Innocence and Legal definition

"Legal innocence refers to absence of one or more procedural or legal bases to support the sentence given to a defendant. Legal innocence is distinguished from actual innocence. Actual innocence focuses on the facts underlying the sentence. Legal innocence focuses on the applicable law and procedure and is not readily available. However, legal innocence is not ordinarily sufficient to satisfy the cause-and-prejudice rule that results from a defendant’s failure to assert an established legal principle."
source

Actual Innocence

Definition
"An absence of facts required for conviction under a criminal statute."
source


Hmmm. Didn't see your "good" mentioned or referred to once.


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