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The creator, by means of precognition, knew in advance that if He brought human life into existence as planned; He would eventually be destroying much of it in a global deluge. He went ahead and created human life as planned anyway.
Also by means of precognition, the creator knew in advance that if He brought human life into existence as planned; He would be torturing much of it in Hell and eventually destroying much of it in a lake of brimstone. He went ahead and created human life as planned anyway.
If the creator's decision to bring human life into existence as planned seems unreasonable, and maybe even a touch fiendish and insane, then you test positive for the so-called fallen nature.
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Fallen Nature Testing
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WebersHome
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Re: Fallen Nature Testing
Post #2.
For a god responsible for creating evil, I think his contemptuous regard for humans is keeping right in tune with his character.
He's pretty much the Donald Trump of deities.
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For a god responsible for creating evil, I think his contemptuous regard for humans is keeping right in tune with his character.
He's pretty much the Donald Trump of deities.
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Re: Fallen Nature Testing
Post #3A touch "fiendish and insane?" No, the most extreme case possible.WebersHome wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:31 am
If the creator's decision to bring human life into existence as planned seems unreasonable, and maybe even a touch fiendish and insane, then you test positive for the so-called fallen nature.
If that is the test, then I am proud to test positive. Of course I would credit it to a healthy dose of human empathy not a so-called fallen nature.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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WebersHome
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Re: Fallen Nature Testing
Post #4.
The human mind consists of consciousness and sub-consciousness. The sub area is where we our minds store suppressed thoughts, feelings, and desires; in other words: things we'd just as soon forget rather than think about.
For example: most Christians cannot admit, even to themselves, their honest opinions about God because those opinions are not only unacceptable, but also unthinkable. Those thoughts and feelings about God are so disturbing that sometimes when one leaks out for us to contemplate, it actually makes us wince, possibly even shiver; and sometimes even momentarily close our eyes and grit our teeth.
I started this thread as a self-test for the fallen nature. The results are useful only when people are honest with themselves. For example:
If you were a creator, and by means of precognition knew in advance that the human life you were thinking about bringing into existence would one day require you to exterminate almost the entire batch in a deluge-- men, women, underage children, infants, handicapped folk, and senior citizens (not to mention birds, bugs, and beasts) --would you willfully and deliberately go ahead and bring all that life into existence anyway knowing full well in advance that your own hand would eventually be killing them by means of a massive die-off?
In my honest opinion (I assume we're all being honest here) no reasonable person, with normal sensitivities, would ever knowingly jeopardize so much life just so they could have their very own sandbox to play in.
• Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your pleasure that they exist and were created.
My opinion insinuates that the creator is an unreasonable person whose sensitivities fall in the abnormal range. What does my opinion say about me? Well; obviously it says that I test positive for the fallen nature.
• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.
FAQ: I am sometimes secretly offended, even disgusted, by the way God goes about His business. Does that mean there is no hope for me?
A: Heb 9:1-14 teaches that Christ's blood serves to sanitize our minds; and we only have to undergo that form of sanitation just once and it's good for all time; we never have to repeat the process.
FAQ: Christ's blood can stop my mind from thinking bad thoughts about God?
A: No, you can expect that those kinds of thoughts will continue to be a nuisance; but they will never again be a barrier between you and God. Christ will make sure of that. The remainder of the ninth chapter of Hebrews bears that out.
FAQ: So, how do I go about obtaining this mental sanitation about which you speak?
A: That's easy. Find yourself a place and simply speak up, admitting to God that you have a sinful mind and would like to take advantage of His son's blood to sanitize it. It sometimes helps to cover your face with your hands to give you a sense of privacy between you and God. I pray like that all the time; it works for me.
_
The human mind consists of consciousness and sub-consciousness. The sub area is where we our minds store suppressed thoughts, feelings, and desires; in other words: things we'd just as soon forget rather than think about.
For example: most Christians cannot admit, even to themselves, their honest opinions about God because those opinions are not only unacceptable, but also unthinkable. Those thoughts and feelings about God are so disturbing that sometimes when one leaks out for us to contemplate, it actually makes us wince, possibly even shiver; and sometimes even momentarily close our eyes and grit our teeth.
I started this thread as a self-test for the fallen nature. The results are useful only when people are honest with themselves. For example:
If you were a creator, and by means of precognition knew in advance that the human life you were thinking about bringing into existence would one day require you to exterminate almost the entire batch in a deluge-- men, women, underage children, infants, handicapped folk, and senior citizens (not to mention birds, bugs, and beasts) --would you willfully and deliberately go ahead and bring all that life into existence anyway knowing full well in advance that your own hand would eventually be killing them by means of a massive die-off?
In my honest opinion (I assume we're all being honest here) no reasonable person, with normal sensitivities, would ever knowingly jeopardize so much life just so they could have their very own sandbox to play in.
• Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your pleasure that they exist and were created.
My opinion insinuates that the creator is an unreasonable person whose sensitivities fall in the abnormal range. What does my opinion say about me? Well; obviously it says that I test positive for the fallen nature.
• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.
FAQ: I am sometimes secretly offended, even disgusted, by the way God goes about His business. Does that mean there is no hope for me?
A: Heb 9:1-14 teaches that Christ's blood serves to sanitize our minds; and we only have to undergo that form of sanitation just once and it's good for all time; we never have to repeat the process.
FAQ: Christ's blood can stop my mind from thinking bad thoughts about God?
A: No, you can expect that those kinds of thoughts will continue to be a nuisance; but they will never again be a barrier between you and God. Christ will make sure of that. The remainder of the ninth chapter of Hebrews bears that out.
FAQ: So, how do I go about obtaining this mental sanitation about which you speak?
A: That's easy. Find yourself a place and simply speak up, admitting to God that you have a sinful mind and would like to take advantage of His son's blood to sanitize it. It sometimes helps to cover your face with your hands to give you a sense of privacy between you and God. I pray like that all the time; it works for me.
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Last edited by WebersHome on Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Miles
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Re: Fallen Nature Testing
Post #5It doesn't matter what we might do, but what god has already done and continues to do, and the only reason I can think he would do so, is entertainment. Human strife and suffering with a little bit of happiness and joy thrown in is entertaining to god. Watching how it all plays out must fascinate him, if he's still bothering to watch at all. Perhaps he turned off the Human Experience On Earth program long ago and is just letting it run its course while he watches a new program on some other planet in the universe. Or maybe he's skipped over to a newly created universe to toy with.WebersHome wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:45 am .
The human mind consists of consciousness and sub-consciousness. The sub area is where we our minds store suppressed thoughts, feelings, and desires; in other words: things we'd just as soon forget rather than think about.
For example: most Christians cannot admit, even to themselves, their honest opinions about God because those opinions are not only unacceptable, but also unthinkable. Those thoughts and feelings about God are so disturbing that sometimes when one leaks out for us to contemplate, it actually makes us wince, possibly even shiver; and sometimes even momentarily close our eyes and grit our teeth.
I started this thread as a self-test for the fallen nature. The results are useful only when people are honest with themselves. For example:
If you were a creator, and by means of precognition knew in advance that the human life you were thinking about bringing into existence would one day require you to exterminate almost the entire batch in a deluge-- men, women, underage children, infants, handicapped folk, and senior citizens (not to mention birds, bugs, and beasts) --would you willfully and deliberately go ahead and bring all that life into existence anyway knowing full well in advance that your own hand would eventually be killing them by means of a massive die-off?
In my honest opinion (I assume we're all being honest here) no reasonable person, with normal sensitivities, would ever knowingly jeopardize so much life just so they could have their very own sandbox to play in.
However, one thing we know for certain about his presence here on earth, as Christians describe it, it makes absolutely no sense .
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WebersHome
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Re: Fallen Nature Testing
Post #6.
Regarding the forbidden fruit incident depicted in the 3rd chapter of the book of Genesis:
• Rom 5:12 . .When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
FAQ: How is it fair to charge the entire human race with the sin of one man?
A: I don't know.
FAQ: Why do I have to die for something I didn't do?
A: I don't know.
FAQ: I was made a sinner before I was even born?
A: Yes.
REACTION: That makes me angry!
RESPONSE: You should be angry, and if you're not, then I really have to question your moral values, i.e. your sense of justice, and your perception of right and wrong.
REACTION: Romans 5:12 is a mistake. According to Ezek 18:20, children are not responsible for their father's sins.
RESPONSE: According to Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3:17, the laws of God are not retroactive, i.e. Ezek 18:20 was enacted too late to have any say in Adam's life.
FAQ: Does my anger in this matter mean that I test positive for the fallen nature?
A: You test positive.
• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.
_
Regarding the forbidden fruit incident depicted in the 3rd chapter of the book of Genesis:
• Rom 5:12 . .When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
FAQ: How is it fair to charge the entire human race with the sin of one man?
A: I don't know.
FAQ: Why do I have to die for something I didn't do?
A: I don't know.
FAQ: I was made a sinner before I was even born?
A: Yes.
REACTION: That makes me angry!
RESPONSE: You should be angry, and if you're not, then I really have to question your moral values, i.e. your sense of justice, and your perception of right and wrong.
REACTION: Romans 5:12 is a mistake. According to Ezek 18:20, children are not responsible for their father's sins.
RESPONSE: According to Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3:17, the laws of God are not retroactive, i.e. Ezek 18:20 was enacted too late to have any say in Adam's life.
FAQ: Does my anger in this matter mean that I test positive for the fallen nature?
A: You test positive.
• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.
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WebersHome
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Re: Fallen Nature Testing
Post #7.
There's a significant element of difference between Adam's actions and Christ's. Everyone gets slammed with the consequences related to Adam's act; whereas the blessings related to Jesus' act are limited to the few that are chosen from among the many that are called.
The above makes no sense to a reasonable person because if Christ died for everybody, then why isn't everybody chosen? And if it's God's will that everybody be saved; then why aren't they?
Christians have invented a variety of canned apologies with which to respond to those kinds of questions, while in the backs of their minds struggling with the lunacy of it all.
_
There's a significant element of difference between Adam's actions and Christ's. Everyone gets slammed with the consequences related to Adam's act; whereas the blessings related to Jesus' act are limited to the few that are chosen from among the many that are called.
The above makes no sense to a reasonable person because if Christ died for everybody, then why isn't everybody chosen? And if it's God's will that everybody be saved; then why aren't they?
Christians have invented a variety of canned apologies with which to respond to those kinds of questions, while in the backs of their minds struggling with the lunacy of it all.
_
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WebersHome
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Re: Fallen Nature Testing
Post #8.
Rev 16:18-19 predicts a world-wide earthquake preceding Christ's return so severe on the Richter scale that cities all over the world will collapse at once.
Something like 2,829 lost their lives when the World Trade Center was demolished by a terrorist attack in 2001. Well that was only a few acres of New York City. Just imagine the body count when all of Manhattan comes down at once. along with other major cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Mexico City, Paris, Moscow, Beijing, Tokyo, et al.
By means of precognition, the creator saw that His scheme to bring human life in existence would eventuate in that earthquake; yet He went ahead and created it anyway.
If the creator's decision to follow thru with His scheme seems unreasonable, even a bit demented, and maybe even makes you a little angry; then you test positive for the fallen nature.
_
Rev 16:18-19 predicts a world-wide earthquake preceding Christ's return so severe on the Richter scale that cities all over the world will collapse at once.
Something like 2,829 lost their lives when the World Trade Center was demolished by a terrorist attack in 2001. Well that was only a few acres of New York City. Just imagine the body count when all of Manhattan comes down at once. along with other major cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Mexico City, Paris, Moscow, Beijing, Tokyo, et al.
By means of precognition, the creator saw that His scheme to bring human life in existence would eventuate in that earthquake; yet He went ahead and created it anyway.
If the creator's decision to follow thru with His scheme seems unreasonable, even a bit demented, and maybe even makes you a little angry; then you test positive for the fallen nature.
_
