The Biggest Error in LOTR

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Dimmesdale
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The Biggest Error in LOTR

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Post by Dimmesdale »

One of the biggest flaws with LOTR is the idea of the Ring being evil, and of it having to be destroyed. This is where the whole mythos, the whole moral vision underpinning the narrative, falls into error. The Ring should not be considered a malignant force in and of itself. It has power, and that power may be abused by others, but that should not malign the goodness present in it. Rather, it is very clearly stated to be beautiful and strong and wondrous, something to be respected, just like any other piece of matter. Matter, after all, is not evil. It is something to be used properly, rather than abused. It isn't so much that the Ring is inherently evil, but that no one is morally strong enough to wield it without their own weakness causing them to become corrupted. That is in a nutshell why the philosophy of LOTR is inadequate and half-baked. It fails to understand that it isn't power that so much corrupts, but our own weakness in wielding that power correctly. If we were infinitely strong we would not be corrupted by the Ring. We would naturally use it as it ought to be utilized. Our own finitude, not power, is the ultimate determining factor in whether we abuse any object.

Perhaps one might say that the Ring should still have been destroyed because no one in Middle-Earth would have been strong enough to use it anyway. Perhaps. But the narrative gives this sense of exaggerated wariness surrounding any type of worldly power, and this in my opinion taints the whole moral atmosphere the book tries to convey, and skews it in a faulty direction.

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Re: The Biggest Error in LOTR

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Post by Diagoras »

According to most of the LotR canon, the Ring, being essentially an extension of Sauron himself, was evil in nature. Sauron concentrated part of his own power into it in order to gain control of the other Rings of Power and allow him to gain dominance over all the other Middle Earth races.

Since Sauron’s clearly identified as evil, the ring - by extension - is evil too.

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Re: The Biggest Error in LOTR

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Post by Dimmesdale »

Diagoras wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:04 pm According to most of the LotR canon, the Ring, being essentially an extension of Sauron himself, was evil in nature. Sauron concentrated part of his own power into it in order to gain control of the other Rings of Power and allow him to gain dominance over all the other Middle Earth races.

Since Sauron’s clearly identified as evil, the ring - by extension - is evil too.
Yeah, and that's basically what I'm arguing against. Nothing can ever be intrinsically evil. Something can only be used FOR evil, not BE it.

For example, I can take a saw, and building a cabin out of wood with it for a family that needs shelter; a good thing. Or I can implement it in sadistically sawing off the leg of a person I torture. The saw in and of itself is not evil. It is only how I use it, to what purpose I bring it, that it becomes the source of evil.

Perhaps there is some confusion here. I am arguing against the underlying philosophy of LOTR in which a physical THING can be evil. I am not internally critiquing the story or how it was meant to be interpreted. I am taking more of a meta view. I am saying that any philosophy in which a merely material thing can be construed as evil is faulty, whether that is LOTR or some other story.

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Re: The Biggest Error in LOTR

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In this case the ring 'possesses' the person wearing it since it offers so much power. This tries to show the true nature of a human being. Inside we are evil and no matter what we think about ourselves - there is some kind of tempation to see what does it mean to at least do little bit of harm. We may or may not regret it.

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Re: The Biggest Error in LOTR

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MM1997 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:36 pm In this case the ring 'possesses' the person wearing it since it offers so much power. This tries to show the true nature of a human being. Inside we are evil and no matter what we think about ourselves - there is some kind of tempation to see what does it mean to at least do little bit of harm. We may or may not regret it.
Yes, that is so. Due to the vastness of power tempting humans. So in that case we should not call the Ring evil, but ourselves. It is OUR OWN WEAKNESS that is the culprit. Someone who WOULD BE strong enough to wield it, would not be corrupted. Our own fallenness is what is evil, not any concrete GOOD like the Ring.

The Ring is a very, very Good Thing, intrinsically speaking.

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Re: The Biggest Error in LOTR

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Post by Diagoras »

Dimmesdale wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:14 pmPerhaps there is some confusion here. I am arguing against the underlying philosophy of LOTR in which a physical THING can be evil. I am not internally critiquing the story or how it was meant to be interpreted.
I am in agreement with you insofar as stating a non-sentient object can’t be good or evil - whether in real life or fiction. I don’t believe items can be ‘cursed’. I don’t believe guns (or saws) are evil.

But in the very specific context of LotR, the author took a lot of trouble over the design and internal logic of Middle Earth’s mythology. As far as its ‘rules’ go, things like dragons and magic can exist. And in keeping with those rules, Tolkien detailed how the One Ring contains a part of Sauron’s essence. There are slight clues within the story that suggest the ring has some sentient power: slipping off the wearer’s finger at inopportune moments, for example. The ring also appears to ‘call to its master’ on occasion. Such ‘powers’ don’t exist in reality, of course - but we’re dealing with a fiction, and one that’s set up in a way to show an ‘object of immense power’ as being evil, because it somehow ‘contains’ a bit of an evil being: Sauron.

But at the end of the day, if it in some way spoils the story for you, I’m not going to argue your opinion is wrong. LotR is a great tale, but not without its flaws.

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Re: The Biggest Error in LOTR

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Post by Dimmesdale »

Diagoras wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:49 pm
Dimmesdale wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:14 pmPerhaps there is some confusion here. I am arguing against the underlying philosophy of LOTR in which a physical THING can be evil. I am not internally critiquing the story or how it was meant to be interpreted.
I am in agreement with you insofar as stating a non-sentient object can’t be good or evil - whether in real life or fiction. I don’t believe items can be ‘cursed’. I don’t believe guns (or saws) are evil.

But in the very specific context of LotR, the author took a lot of trouble over the design and internal logic of Middle Earth’s mythology. As far as its ‘rules’ go, things like dragons and magic can exist. And in keeping with those rules, Tolkien detailed how the One Ring contains a part of Sauron’s essence. There are slight clues within the story that suggest the ring has some sentient power: slipping off the wearer’s finger at inopportune moments, for example. The ring also appears to ‘call to its master’ on occasion. Such ‘powers’ don’t exist in reality, of course - but we’re dealing with a fiction, and one that’s set up in a way to show an ‘object of immense power’ as being evil, because it somehow ‘contains’ a bit of an evil being: Sauron.

But at the end of the day, if it in some way spoils the story for you, I’m not going to argue your opinion is wrong. LotR is a great tale, but not without its flaws.
Perhaps you are right in a sense. It is for the sake of the story -- to highlight human weakness. And you are right the ring does have a will of its own in a way.

I guess the narrative surrounding it rubs me the wrong the way. Maybe I am more of the mind of Boromir, lol. But no... I would also ask for its destruction. But in general I believe power is to be rightly exploited, not shunned. Maybe its just me.

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