Within, Without

Pointless Posts, Raves n Rants, Obscure Opinions

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Dimmesdale
Sage
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Vaikuntha Dham
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 89 times

Within, Without

Post #1

Post by Dimmesdale »

One commentator who I won't name has said that the religious quest is not internal, but external.

In other words, it isn't "self" that is at the center, as if God must cater to our individual tastes and preferences. Instead, we are supposed to conform, whether we like it or not, to outside dictates of what is true and right. This he says is counter intuitive to our modern taste in which we are attracted to only those things which resonate with us and our preconceptions, shunning all the rest. True religion, actually, has to make us uncomfortable and force us out of "self."

I both agree and disagree with this line of thought. I agree in the sense that human beings' own subjectivity, left to itself, cannot be the sole barometer of what is real. I disagree also because I feel that this approach glosses over the equally important subjective nature of human experience. Both "objectivity" - what is true "out there" and also "subjectivity" - what we ourselves resonate with, must be respected. It is not either/or. Both are relevant.

Subjectivity has to be respected on its own terms and be cultivated in the right way. Our feelings are a precious part of reality. But we need to learn to hone and sublimate that aspect. Likewise, truth can be hard and disconcerting and contrary to our wishes at times. But once we are baptized in the fire of renouncing wrong things, that is like pairing a vine. It grows all the stronger. These things are double sides of the same coin. Once we understand reality holisitically and in the proper context, I am convicted that we can be both subjectively satisfied and integrated with the true, the good and the beautiful.

User avatar
Dimmesdale
Sage
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Vaikuntha Dham
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 89 times

Re: Within, Without

Post #2

Post by Dimmesdale »

An example where subjective goodness and objective goodness converge and point to each other, is in the image of health.

If we see, for example, a vivacious healthy young man, or woman, or perhaps a well-fed and cheerful red-faced child, that both attracts us subjectively and causes us to be alert to the objective nature of health.

In other words, we immediately connect health (an objective good) to subjective well-being (feeling good). I think one can extend this further, to the fact of "beingness" or "existence." To "be" is also to "be" in a good way. The former is highlighted, its very happiness augmented, by the existence of good conditions. In other words, it makes the most sense to "be" - that is, live spontaneously, relishing the mere fact of existence, - when one is happy and healthy.

And so the classical triad of beauty, goodness and truth is contained in a beautiful red-faced child. These three converge herein, and point to the interconnectedness of themselves.

Athetotheist
Prodigy
Posts: 2690
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:24 pm
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 484 times

Re: Within, Without

Post #3

Post by Athetotheist »

Dimmesdale wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:37 pmAnd so the classical triad of beauty, goodness and truth is contained in a beautiful red-faced child. These three converge herein, and point to the interconnectedness of themselves.
I don't mean to split hairs here, but can't the classical triad of beauty, goodness and truth be contained just as fully in, say, a brown or tan face as it can in a red one?

User avatar
Dimmesdale
Sage
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Vaikuntha Dham
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 89 times

Re: Within, Without

Post #4

Post by Dimmesdale »

Athetotheist wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:30 am
Dimmesdale wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:37 pmAnd so the classical triad of beauty, goodness and truth is contained in a beautiful red-faced child. These three converge herein, and point to the interconnectedness of themselves.
I don't mean to split hairs here, but can't the classical triad of beauty, goodness and truth be contained just as fully in, say, a brown or tan face as it can in a red one?
I don't mean ethnic skin color by "red" if that is what you mean. Redness just means, being a-flush with health, as opposed to pale, lethargic, underfed or malnourished.

But perhaps you are right. Redness isn't really that important. It just highlights that one is healthier than if he or she was pale or sallow, connoting ill health. That is not to say pale people aren't healthy. Redness just highlights or expresses health more compellingly or vividly.

Post Reply