The New Fake Math

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WebersHome
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The New Fake Math

Post #1

Post by WebersHome »

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In order to protect Black and Hispanic children from the alleged destructive effects of racism and white supremacy, the State of Oregon is proposing that teachers no longer expect right answers nor require kids to show their work.

In other words; all will be dumbed down in the name of equality rather than any urged to excel; which of course assumes that, as a bloc, certain races are IQ challenged; giving Caucasians and Asians an unfair advantage.

* Apparently the long-range goal is to have everyone laboring on collective farms chopping cotton and harvesting lettuce.
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Last edited by WebersHome on Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The New Fake Math

Post #2

Post by Difflugia »

Can you give us a source for this?

I hope you'll forgive me for thinking that the story may be a bit more nuanced than your presentation of it.
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Re: The New Fake Math

Post #3

Post by WebersHome »

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Difflugia wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:38 pmCan you give us a source for this?
Have you tried Google, Yahoo, or MSN?
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Re: The New Fake Math

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Post by Difflugia »

WebersHome wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:43 pmHave you tried Google, Yahoo, or MSN?
No. I figured you'd know.
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Re: The New Fake Math

Post #5

Post by Purple Knight »

Found it.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oregon-educa ... -supremacy

I don't see this as destructive. For it to be destructive, there has to be something to destroy.

Why bother pretending school is something other than a taxpayer-funded daycare when:

People who drop out make it big as businessmen
Good grades don't mean good jobs
Everyone knows school is just a popularity contest from A to Z

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Re: The New Fake Math

Post #6

Post by Tcg »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:20 pm
People who drop out make it big as businessmen
An infinitesimally small number make it big as businessmen. Most end up asking, "Do you want fries with that?"
Good grades don't mean good jobs
They certainly help.
Everyone knows school is just a popularity contest from A to Z
Grades aren't based on popularity.


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Re: The New Fake Math

Post #7

Post by benchwarmer »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:20 pm Found it.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oregon-educa ... -supremacy

I don't see this as destructive. For it to be destructive, there has to be something to destroy.
You don't see giving credit for the wrong answers as nondestructive? What kind of society will that create?

The whole 'participation' versus 'achievement' mentality that has creeped into some children's sports is already headed in the wrong direction and now some want to bring that into education?

Does anyone think they would be communicating on a computer over a worldwide connected network with others if everyone just used whatever answer suited their fancy?
Purple Knight wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:20 pm Why bother pretending school is something other than a taxpayer-funded daycare when:

People who drop out make it big as businessmen
Good grades don't mean good jobs
Everyone knows school is just a popularity contest from A to Z
I get your frustration and to some degree these are true. However, most people who drop out don't make it big. Sure, a few manage it, but by dropping out they have certainly shut off many avenues for job prospects.

Good grades definitely don't mean good jobs, but failing completely and just giving whatever answer you like certainly won't mean good jobs either. I actually have a personal hypothesis that those who struggle in school and TRY to get good grades may actually end up doing better in the end than those who naturally don't have to work very hard to achieve success. I witnessed this first hand at the university level. Those who skated through high school with little need to study where hit hard in the face with reality. I was one of them. I watched so many smart people drop out because they didn't know how to study and quickly got left behind. I was almost one of those statistics until I realized I better learn how to learn.

Yes, high school can seem like one big popularity contest and nothing else to a teenager. I was certainly NOT popular so I get it. However, if we let children lose the popularity context AND an actual education, I think we have completely failed as a society.

You can't do any trade that I know of without some basic math skills. Try building anything without knowing how to measure properly.

In fact, I can't think of ANY job where you can be successful and just do whatever suits you in the moment. Even the stereotypical french fry dispenser has to at least have the skills to deliver the correct order. If the customer did indeed 'want fries with that' and you decide to "be you" and give them a side salad instead I can't imagine you would be employed for long.

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Re: The New Fake Math

Post #8

Post by Difflugia »

WebersHome wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:39 pmIn order to protect Black and Hispanic children from the alleged destructive effects of racism and white supremacy, the State of Oregon is proposing that teachers no longer expect right answers nor require kids to show their work.
So, it seems that this is a caricature of even the Fox News article, which is itself a caricature of the actual program.

The program isn't saying that right answers and showing work are unimportant, but that teachers are using the answers as the only metric for success rather than teaching problem solving skills. It isn't saying not to have kids show their work, but to make sure as teachers that "show your work" isn't a replacement for discussing various ways to solve the problems.
WebersHome wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:39 pmIn other words; all will be dumbed down in the name of equality rather than any urged to excel; which of course assumes that, as a bloc, certain races are IQ challenged; giving Caucasians and Asians an unfair advantage.

* Apparently the long-range goal is to have everyone laboring on collective farms chopping cotton and harvesting lettuce.
I've no idea where this came from. None of this is stated or implied by the original document or even the Fox News article. Fox News certainly has the vapors over attempts to counter white supremacy, but nobody's claiming that anything is being dumbed down for anybody. The premise of the program isn't that white kids do better with certain kinds of problems, but that everybody, including white kids, learn math skills poorly from the current teaching methods. Apparently these poor methods either perpetuate white supremacy or are because of white supremacy (that part's unclear to me), but not because white kids are better at math than the normal kids.

As far as I can tell, the long range goal is that students in general become more competent at solving math problems. If that somehow reduces the overall effect of white privilege, then I say "win, win." I've no idea what the connection with white privilege is, but if Fox News thinks it's important enough to make their audience scared of it, then there probably is one.
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Re: The New Fake Math

Post #9

Post by Purple Knight »

benchwarmer wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:29 amYou don't see giving credit for the wrong answers as nondestructive?
Nope.
benchwarmer wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:29 amWhat kind of society will that create?
Nothing different than we already have.
benchwarmer wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:29 amThe whole 'participation' versus 'achievement' mentality that has creeped into some children's sports is already headed in the wrong direction and now some want to bring that into education?
If anything, sports should be meritocratic and education shouldn't. The fatbutts sitting on their couches actually care about the level of athleticism they're seeing. But does anyone care if new things get invented? If they're not smartphones, imma say no. And the new smartphones aren't even better than the old ones; Apple just slows down the old ones so you buy new.
benchwarmer wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:29 amDoes anyone think they would be communicating on a computer over a worldwide connected network with others if everyone just used whatever answer suited their fancy?
They don't care. They already have the computers and the web.
benchwarmer wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:29 amI get your frustration and to some degree these are true. However, most people who drop out don't make it big. Sure, a few manage it, but by dropping out they have certainly shut off many avenues for job prospects.
TGC seems to disagree, but the only thing they lock themselves out of is saying, "Would you like fries with that?" since low-level jobs will prefer the high school diploma.
benchwarmer wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:29 amGood grades definitely don't mean good jobs, but failing completely and just giving whatever answer you like certainly won't mean good jobs either. I actually have a personal hypothesis that those who struggle in school and TRY to get good grades may actually end up doing better in the end than those who naturally don't have to work very hard to achieve success. I witnessed this first hand at the university level. Those who skated through high school with little need to study where hit hard in the face with reality. I was one of them. I watched so many smart people drop out because they didn't know how to study and quickly got left behind. I was almost one of those statistics until I realized I better learn how to learn.
I agree. I was the smart one who had to learn how to study. It was rough. What helped me focus best was having the TV on, but with something on I would never watch in a bajillion years.

I'm not unemployed but I'm lucky. In recent years around 53% of recent college graduates are unemployed or underemployed. So you work hard, get a degree, and even if you chose a field in high demand like computer science, you end up working as a waitress to pay off your college debt. When you could have just been a waitress to begin with and not had any debt.

Around 53% of recent college graduates are unemployed or underemployed.Yes, high school can seem like one big popularity contest and nothing else to a teenager. I was certainly NOT popular so I get it. However, if we let children lose the popularity context AND an actual education, I think we have completely failed as a society.[/quote]

The only reason high school exists is the popularity contest. Grades don't matter. You're popular, you do well in life. You're unpopular, you don't. School is a cage for humans to learn dominance, and nothing else. The best advice I can give anyone is don't do what I did and refuse drugs. Take drugs. Take every drug. Take all the drugs you can find, especially pot. Potheads hire other potheads. They eat businesses alive with their nonproductivity but who cares? They cover for each other, and whenever someone needs to be thrown under the bus it won't be one of them.

This is not how it is in Asian countries where grades matter. You get good grades, you get into better schools, and that = better jobs. I know people in Japan and they can't quite believe life in the West is a perpetual high school.
benchwarmer wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:29 amYou can't do any trade that I know of without some basic math skills. Try building anything without knowing how to measure properly.

In fact, I can't think of ANY job where you can be successful and just do whatever suits you in the moment. Even the stereotypical french fry dispenser has to at least have the skills to deliver the correct order. If the customer did indeed 'want fries with that' and you decide to "be you" and give them a side salad instead I can't imagine you would be employed for long.
Yes, people on the bottom rung have to have basic reading and math skills. You work the cash register? It needs to be correct, to the penny, every day, to avoid demerits. You're mathematically illiterate and that won't work out.

From the time I was 16 to 19, I worked for a scam timeshare reselling company in Florida where the two guys who ran it were always walking around with $10k in their pockets. In cash. They were both illiterate. They just had connections. They had the little minimum wage nobodies like me help out whenever they needed anything. They prove you don't need an education.

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Re: The New Fake Math

Post #10

Post by Corwill454 »

A decent number of schools use Singapore Math - https://esingaporemath.com/lms/program. They had to switch to Beestar as the students did not respond well to Singapore Math as we had hoped. They really struggled with the concepts and material presented.

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