Why annihilation is false

Pointless Posts, Raves n Rants, Obscure Opinions

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9161
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Why annihilation is false

Post #1

Post by Wootah »

This is the philosophical perspective.

This all assumes a just legal system.

When someone is sentenced to go to prison they will only be able to end that prison sentence by paying the measured fine or serving the measured amount of time in prison. If that person has served their prison sentence and then you kill them you are acting unjustly.

If God is holy, righteous and just and we have sinned against God then hell is the prison we go to unless we pay for our sins against God or until we serve our time.

Problem a - is that we can never justly pay for our sins against an infinite God and so can never leave the prison.
Problem b - is that annihilation means that the sentence is over and God killed the person after the sentence was over.

Therefore Annihilation makes God unjust.

Put another way, at the point where God intends to annihilate a being it means that God regards that they have served their sentence. Therefore the being should be allowed into heaven. They have paid for their sins against God.

If they have not served their sentence and God annihilates them fails because as I just said, at the point of annihilation it means they have served their sentence.

Anecdote: I am pro-death penalty but the biggest argument against the death penalty for me is that prison lets the criminal rot for longer. Something about the execution is unjust, it is too light a punishment. I would still reply back that the cost to the state for keeping the criminal alive takes resources away from others and in a fallen world the prisoner could escape.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9161
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Why annihilation is false

Post #2

Post by Wootah »

Just thinking about this.

After annihilation has the person paid for their sins?

If yes, then why aren't they in heaven?
If no, then they have escaped punishment or, worse, is God unable to justly punish?
Last edited by Wootah on Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11342
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 312 times
Been thanked: 357 times

Re: Why annihilation is false

Post #3

Post by 1213 »

Wootah wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:10 pm...
Put another way, at the point where God intends to annihilate a being it means that God regards that they have served their sentence. Therefore the being should be allowed into heaven. They have paid for their sins against God.

If they have not served their sentence and God annihilates them fails because as I just said, at the point of annihilation it means they have served their sentence....
Firstly, I think it I is good to notice these:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

You may not like it, but hell is a place where person is destroyed and eternal life is for righteous, according to the Bible. I don’t think that means hell is sentence that is served, it is the permanent end for person. And the reason for it is that person is not righteous. God gives eternal life only for righteous and I believe the reason for that is, righteous people have right understanding and want to do what is good and right. If unrighteous people would live eternally, they would make life eternal suffering for all.

And I don’t think it is wrong that God doesn’t give eternal life for all. There is no good reason to demand more than what He gives. Even the righteous people would not have anything why they could demand God to give more than this life.

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4069
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Why annihilation is false

Post #4

Post by Checkpoint »

Wootah wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:10 pm
This is the philosophical perspective.

This all assumes a just legal system.
Yes , a philosophical perspective containing several untrue assumptions.

Not merely "a just legal system, but one not of this world but of the God who knows all things.
When someone is sentenced to go to prison they will only be able to end that prison sentence by paying the measured fine or serving the measured amount of time in prison. If that person has served their prison sentence and then you kill them you are acting unjustly.

If God is holy, righteous and just and we have sinned against God then hell is the prison we go to unless we pay for our sins against God or until we serve our time.
God does not "sentence to go to prison"; hell is not a prison, but rather, a penalty He will carry out.

God will sentence at the Judgment, those who have not paid the penalty He set (the ransom), by accepting, in this life, His free gift offer through His grace in Jesus Christ's death in our place.

As it is written:

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Problem a - is that we can never justly pay for our sins against an infinite God and so can never leave the prison.
Problem b - is that annihilation means that the sentence is over and God killed the person aften makes God unjust.

Put another way, at the point where God intends to annihilate a being it means that God regards that they have served their sentence. Therefore the being should be allowed into heaven. They have paid for their sins against God.

If they have not served their sentence and God annihilates them fails because as I just said, at the point of annihilation it means they have served their sentence.


Anecdote: I am pro-death penalty but the biggest argument against the death penalty for me is that prison lets the criminal rot for longer. Something about the execution is unjust, it is too light a punishment. I would still reply back that the cost to the state for keeping the criminal alive takes resources away from others and in a fallen world the prisoner could escape.
These problems stem from your own assumptions and reasonings in relation to your own story.

Sorry to say so, but I find this philosophical perspective is mostly false assumptions put together, and thus to be totally unconvincing reasoning, from beginning to end.

User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 20499
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 335 times
Contact:

Re: Why annihilation is false

Post #5

Post by otseng »

Moderator Action

Moved to Random Ramblings. Please review the Rules and Tips on starting a debate topic.

Checkpoint
Prodigy
Posts: 4069
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Why annihilation is false

Post #6

Post by Checkpoint »

Wootah wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:10 pm
Just thinking about this.

After annihilation has the person paid for their sins?

If yes, then why aren't they in heaven?
If no, then they have escaped punishment or, worse, is God unable to justly punish?
No.
The person is in the process of paying for their sins. A process that never ends, as their death is eternal.

They have not escaped punishment, for this is how God justly punishes.

End of story.

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9161
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Why annihilation is false

Post #7

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #6]

Hi checkpoint - unfortunately we are in random ramblings. I have recreated the thread with hopefully a question to avoid that fate.

Random ramblings seems like hell.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Post Reply