God's whatever I say

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God's whatever I say

Post #1

Post by JoeyKnothead »

God's whatever I say he is.

God does whatever I say he does.

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #11

Post by Purple Knight »

Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:14 pmSo yes, lacking any admonition NOT to own slaves, by default Christians get to own them, just as by default they must have been allowed to do a lot of other things that weren't prohibited.
Maybe. It depends on who's doing the interpreting. I happen to like exclusionary rulebooks, where unless it's mentioned specifically that you can't do it, you can do it. These sorts of rulebooks are rare, even in liberal societies.
Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:14 pmI'm still waiting for your chapter and verse that says "these permissions are specifically for the People of Israel and not anyone else."
Jesus specifically said don't stone hookers to death. The Old Testament says stone hookers to death. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. In other words, all permissions to punish anyone, ever, ARE GONE. Gone. Up and vanished like a fart in the wind.

So either God changes his mind or the permissions for those who follow the Old Testament are not for those who follow Jesus. Good luck getting a Christian to say God changes his mind.
Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:14 pmIn other words you stand steadfastly by the Bible's unqualified order to never judge anyone for anything.
I don't think I can meet that standard. I'll just tell you that here and now. I think it's logically impossible not to make those sorts of judgments. I think we need bad examples (the Bible, incidentally, gives plenty).

But yes, I think not judging anyone, ever, is probably the most moral way. It requires cognitive dissonance to accomplish, since you can't be expected to never murder anybody yourself because it's wrong, then simply fail to notice that other guy has murdered, but nobody ever said morality was logical.

And I don't think I ever said I was moral.

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #12

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:56 pm ...
AND according to what the Bible tells us, practicing male homosexuals should be killed (Leviticus 20:13) and it's just fine to own other human beings as slaves and "bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever." (Leviticus 25:44-46)...
I think you are missing something, because these are also said in the Bible:

…the Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,"
John 18:31

…Don't become bondservants [=slaves] of men.
1 Cor. 7:23

I think it would generally be good to read whole instructions and not do hastily something that sounds tempting to you.

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #13

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:58 am
Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:56 pm ...
AND according to what the Bible tells us, practicing male homosexuals should be killed (Leviticus 20:13) and it's just fine to own other human beings as slaves and "bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever." (Leviticus 25:44-46)...
I think you are missing something, because these are also said in the Bible:

…the Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,"
John 18:31
Ah, how about quoting the entire verse, which goes like this:

John 18:31 (ERV)
31 Pilate said to them, “You take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.”
The Jewish leaders answered, “But your law does not allow us to punish anyone by killing them.”

And guess who the "your" refers to? Yup, Pilate.

And even if Jewish law prohibited Jews from killing people, what are you going to do with god's unequivocal directive:

Leviticus 20:13
13 “If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Simply ignore it? OF COURSE. What better way to make the Bible agree with one's theology than to cherry pick it.


…Don't become bondservants [=slaves] of men.
1 Cor. 7:23
And in checking 61 different bibles, for every one (1) "bondservents" I found in 1 Corinthians 7:23 I found 16+ "slaves" (3 "bondservents" Vs 50 "slaves")



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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #14

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:49 am
1213 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:58 am
Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:56 pm ...
AND according to what the Bible tells us, practicing male homosexuals should be killed (Leviticus 20:13) and it's just fine to own other human beings as slaves and "bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever." (Leviticus 25:44-46)...
I think you are missing something, because these are also said in the Bible:

…the Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,"
John 18:31
Ah, how about quoting the entire verse, which goes like this:

John 18:31 (ERV)
31 Pilate said to them, “You take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.”
The Jewish leaders answered, “But your law does not allow us to punish anyone by killing them.”
...
ERV seems to be a poor translation, when all that I have checked says something like ..."It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,"... But, if it was lawful for them, why did they not do so?

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #15

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:29 am
Miles wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:49 am
1213 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:58 am
Miles wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:56 pm ...
AND according to what the Bible tells us, practicing male homosexuals should be killed (Leviticus 20:13) and it's just fine to own other human beings as slaves and "bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever." (Leviticus 25:44-46)...
I think you are missing something, because these are also said in the Bible:

…the Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,"
John 18:31
Ah, how about quoting the entire verse, which goes like this:

John 18:31 (ERV)
31 Pilate said to them, “You take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.”
The Jewish leaders answered, “But your law does not allow us to punish anyone by killing them.”
...
ERV seems to be a poor translation, when all that I have checked says something like ..."It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,"... But, if it was lawful for them, why did they not do so?
Which is why I said:

"And even if Jewish law prohibited Jews from killing people, what are you going to do with god's unequivocal directive:

Leviticus 20:13

13 “If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Simply ignore it? OF COURSE.
What better way to make the Bible agree with one's theology than to cherry pick it."



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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #16

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:22 pm ...
"And even if Jewish law prohibited Jews from killing people, what are you going to do with god's unequivocal directive:

Leviticus 20:13

13 “If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Simply ignore it? ...
If you can ignore that not everyone has the right to be a judge by that law, why not ignore also that?

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #17

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:28 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:22 pm ...
"And even if Jewish law prohibited Jews from killing people, what are you going to do with god's unequivocal directive:

Leviticus 20:13

13 “If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.

Simply ignore it? ...
If you can ignore that not everyone has the right to be a judge by that law, why not ignore also that?
Just what law are you proposing that people use to be a judge?



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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #18

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:51 pm
1213 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:28 pm If you can ignore that not everyone has the right to be a judge by that law, why not ignore also that?
Just what law are you proposing that people use to be a judge?
I meant, Bible gives the law, but it does not make everyone a judge. When the law was given, God also set certain people to be judges. And the judges should have obeyed all God’s rules for the judging and not act like angry mob that wants to get rid of someone. Person who has not even read all of the rules, should not make any judgments, because he doesn’t know how to use the law.

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Re: God's whatever I say

Post #19

Post by JoeyKnothead »

1213 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:36 am
Miles wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:51 pm
1213 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:28 pm If you can ignore that not everyone has the right to be a judge by that law, why not ignore also that?
Just what law are you proposing that people use to be a judge?
I meant, Bible gives the law, but it does not make everyone a judge. When the law was given, God also set certain people to be judges. And the judges should have obeyed all God’s rules for the judging and not act like angry mob that wants to get rid of someone. Person who has not even read all of the rules, should not make any judgments, because he doesn’t know how to use the law.
Our problem here, apart from all the assumptions building up to this notion, is:

How can we know God made anyone a "judge", and...

How can we know what it takes to constitue "angry", and "mob", that we might accept the judgement of an "angry" "mob".


Remember, the bible ain't considered authoritative in this section of the site.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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