The Lord said to My Lord...

[ICHTHUS]

The LORD said to My Lord…

“Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to him, “The son of David.”( Matthew 22:41-42). How can the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself, in the Holy Spirit, declared, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet.” David himself calls him Lord. So how is he his son?” And the great throng heard him gladly.” (Mark 12:35-37). And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions” (Matthew 22:46)”

This is THE most Important question that any human being can ever be asked, “What do you think about the Christ?. The answer to this question will determine the eternal destiny of every human, depending on what their answer is. Who is Jesus Christ? To these Jews, Jesus says, “what do you think about The Messiah”, “Ho Christos” being the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew, “Mashiach”.

Jesus is not here denying that He is “The Son of David”, which means that His human line came from David. This is confirmed in the very first verse in the Gospel of Matthew. Those who heard Jesus preach, often called out to Him, “"Have mercy on us, Son of David!" (Matthew 9:27; 15:22; 20:30, etc). To which Jesus never objected. The Term, “The Son of David”, was known as a Title of the Messiah at this time, as we read in Matthew 12:23, “All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?”. And, “Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?” (John 7:42). These first century Jews knew what it meant by “The Son of David”.

In these passages in the Gospels, Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament Psalm 110.

“The LORD said to My Lord…”

It is clear from these passages, that Jesus Christ is here claiming for Himself, Absolute Deity, as Yahweh, and fully equal with God the Father.

Psalm 110 is understood as Messianic, by the older Jewish commentators. Which is what the Jews in Jesus’ time would have known. As we see for verse 1:
“In the Midrash Tehillim on this passage, it is said, " God spake thus to the Messiah”” (J Stewart Perowne, The Book of Pslams, p.288)

John Gill says in his commentary, that the Targum of Jonathan reads in verse 1, “the Lord said to his Word”

Here we have, "The LORD (Yahweh) said”, “to My Lord (Adoni)” a direct address by Yahweh to Adon (the root word), which is masculine and singular. It is argued by some, that this Hebrew noun is used in the sense of “master, lord, sir, governor”, as a title of “respect” for a more “noble” person, and always only for humans, and never of God. As we shall see, that these arguments are misleading, and do not reflect the use of “Adon”, in the Bible.

The Masoretes punctuate verse one: “Adoni”, which is the singular noun and singular suffix, literally, “my lord”, or “my Lord”. This can be used for God as well as humans. The form “Adonai”, plural noun and singular suffix, literally, “my Lords”, or “Lord”, which is only used for God.

A website that is used to promote “Unitarianism” as the Bible’s Teaching of the God of the Bible, and is anti Trinitarian, says this on the use of “Adon” in this verse:
“The Hebrew word translated “my lord” is adoni (pronounced “Adon nee”) in the standard Hebrew texts. This word is always used in Scripture to describe human masters and lords, but never God...The difference between adon (the root word), adoni (“lord,” always used of men or angels) and adonai (which is used of God and sometimes written adonay) is critical to the understanding of Psalm 110:1.” (https://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/psalm-110-1)

Likewise, we have the argument used by a Jewish Rabbi:

“I should note that the second “lord” in Hebrew is not “ado-nai” – the term the Torah reserves for God, but “adoni”. The latter is a simple Hebrew word which means “my lord” but is not sacred. Throughout the Torah that word is used in reference to honored human beings but never to God, e.g. Genesis 18:3, 23:6, 24:18, 31:35, 33:8, 34:14, 44:18, etc. Thus, it was incorrectly capitalized in your translation. In fact, Hebrew has no capital letters so capitalizations which are found in English translations are merely based on translators’ assumptions, and as you can see, are not always reliable.” (Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld; https://www.aish.com/atr/Psalm-110-Two-Lords.html)

Are these comments factually right? The evidence from the Old Testament itself, will show that these two websites are here are completely wrong. There are many instances in the Old Testament, where “Adon” is used for Almighty God. In Exodus 23:17, “the Lord (Adon) GOD”; Exodus 34:23, “before the Lord (Adon) GOD, the God of Israel”; Joshua 3:11, 13, “the Lord (Adon) of all the earth”; Psalm 97:5, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; Psalm 114:7 reads, “Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord (Adon)”; Isaiah 1:24, 3:1, 10:16, 10:33, 19:4, “the Lord (Adon), the LORD of hosts”; Isaiah 51:22, “Thus saith thy Lord (Adon) the LORD, and thy God”; Micah 4:13, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; Zechariah 4:14, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; 6:5, “the Lord (Adon) of all the earth”. In Deuteronomy 10:17, we read: “O give thanks to the Lord of lords”; and Psalm 136:3, it says: “For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords”. In the Hebrew, where it says “Lord”, and “lord”, in its 4 uses, the word used is, “Adon”. They are in the masculine plural, literally, “master of masters”. So, to say that “Adon”, “is always used in Scripture to describe human masters and lords, but never God”, as these websites do, is downright misleading.

It matters not whether it reads as it does in Psalm 110:1, as “my Lord”, or, as in Isaiah 51:22, “thy Lord”, or, simply “the Lord”. Each case the root word is the same in the Hebrew, “Adon”. And we have clear uses of this word for the Lord God in the Old Testament, and not as some suggest, only used for humans.

Verses that use “Adon” in these contexts, “the Lord of the whole earth”, and “the Lord of all the earth”, and “For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords”, show that God is seen as The Absolute Ruler and Power in the universe. Hardly of someone who is simply a “lord or master, or noble”! Interesting, that in the Greek Old Testament by Symmachus, at the end of the 2nd century, it says in Psalm 110:1, “The Lord said “τῷ δεσπότη μου”, which is not simply “Lord”, but of “Absolute Ruler”. The Greek “δεσπότης”, is from where we get our “Despot” from, which means, “a ruler with absolute power and authority” (Webster’s Dictionary). Colin Brown’s, New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, defines as, “despotes expresses the arbitrary, unlimited exercise of power without any real conditions”.

Verse 5 makes it very clear Who is “Adoni” is in verse 1. Here it reads:

“The Lord at your Right Hand”

Which is a further reference to “Adoni”, Who is at the Right Hand of “Yahweh”. In verse 5 the Hebrew word used in the greater majority of manuscripts, is “Adonay”, and not “Adoni”. “Adonay” is always used in the Old Testament for Almighty God, and never for any humans or heavenly beings. There are about 20 Hebrew Masoretic Text, that reads in verse 5, “Yahweh”. Either Name is that used for the Eternal, Unchanging, Self-Existing, God of the Holy Bible. And here it is clearly used for the Lord Jesus Christ!

Some, who cannot accept the fact, that Jesus Christ is here identified as Almighty God, have suggested that verse 5 does not mean what it actually says. As Dr Cheyen says in his Commentary:

“The description in vv. 2, 3 is resumed. The Lord is Jehovah (surely not the king), who is invisibly standing at His viceroy's right hand” (p.303)

Others try to read, “the Lord is at your Right Hand”, which is not in the Hebrew.

The “Yahweh” of verse 1, now changes places with “Adon”, and is on His Right Hand! This is no more than conjecture and the rejection of what the Bible plainly Teaches. There is NO Scripture passage that says that God the Father is at the Right Hand of Jesus Christ. What it does say in verse 5, is that the “Adon”, which some of the Masoretic manuscripts, by the Jews, read “Yahweh”, is COEQUAL with “Yahweh”. Verse one can be translated as “Yahweh says to my Yahweh”.

The passages in the Gospels, when read with Psalm 110, is one of the clearest and strongest, testimonies by The Lord Jesus Christ, on His Absolute Deity. These passages also show that the God of the Holy Bible is not “Unitarian”, as there are here TWO distinct “Persons” Who are EQUALLY Almighty God.

[ICHTHUS]

Read # 9 where I have answered this false argument

[2timothy316]

Read # 9 where I have answered this false argument

I have read 9 it doesn't answer my questions, most of all, can I trust John 14:28 to be true or is it a lie?

[ICHTHUS]

As as I clearly shown that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, which even God the Father acknowledges. How then can the the Father be greater than Jesus in the Godhead? Only while on earth as the God-Man was Jesus subordinate to the Father. This is also very clear in Philippians 2:5-11 and John 17.5 etc

[2timothy316]

As as I clearly shown that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, which even God the Father acknowledges. How then can the the Father be greater than Jesus in the Godhead? Only while on earth as the God-Man was Jesus subordinate to the Father. This is also very clear in Philippians 2:5-11 and John 17.5 etc

So John 14:28 is false, gottcha. After all John 14:28 is clearly saying that Jesus is not equal to Almighty God so John 14:28 must be false. So much for trusting the Bible if I can't trust all of it eh? Because that would mean there was no God while Jesus wasn't equal to his Father.

This was written after Jesus had gone to heaven. "the head of the Christ is God." - 1 Cor 11:3
Is this a false scripture too? Because here it's saying Jesus is still subordinate.

1 Cor 15:28 says, "then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."
Yet another scripture that says that Jesus will be made subject to God in the future. Is this a lie as well?

[ICHTHUS]

You misuse ONE verse from the Bible, and ignore ALL those that very clearly show that Jesus Christ IS Almighty God! Typical distortion of the Teachings of the Bible so that you can promote your false theories!

[2timothy316]

You misuse ONE verse from the Bible, and ignore ALL those that very clearly show that Jesus Christ IS Almighty God! Typical distortion of the Teachings of the Bible so that you can promote your false theories!

I'm just quoting scriptures and asking questions. Im hardly saying anything in my own words. Your fight appears to be with the Bible. BTW there is not just one verse that says Jesus is less than his Father.

Here is what you call false, correct?
"the head of the Christ is God." - 1 Cor 11:3
"then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." -1 Cor 15:28

[ICHTHUS]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #15]

Read Revelation 11:15, which is very clear that the Father and Jesus Christ are JOINT in Reigning. This is also seen from Revelation 22:1-3. In both places we have the singular used for TWO distinct Persons.

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign (singluar) forever and ever.”

"the throne (singular) of God and of the Lamb...the throne (singluar) of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve Him (singular)"

So the passages that you quote from 1 Corinthians are ONLY for the time of the Incarnation, as these passages from Revelation are clear that BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ are JOINT-KINGS.

See also Revelation 5:13-14, where BOTH God the Father AND Jesus Christ have EQUAL BLESSINGS, HONOR, GLORY MIGHT, and are WORSHIPPED EQUALLY!

And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be the Blessing and The Honor and the Glory and the Might forever and ever.” And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

Jesus Christ while on earth, accepted WORSHIP and forgave sins, BOTH only possible as Almighty God!

NONE of your misused verses can disprove FACTS!

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #15]

Read Revelation 11:15, which is very clear that the Father and Jesus Christ are JOINT in Reigning. This is also seen from Revelation 22:1-3. In both places we have the singular used for TWO distinct Persons.

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign (singluar) forever and ever.”

"the throne (singular) of God and of the Lamb...the throne (singluar) of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve Him (singular)"

So the passages that you quote from 1 Corinthians are ONLY for the time of the Incarnation, as these passages from Revelation are clear that BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ are JOINT-KINGS.

See also Revelation 5:13-14, where BOTH God the Father AND Jesus Christ have EQUAL BLESSINGS, HONOR, GLORY MIGHT, and are WORSHIPPED EQUALLY!

And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be the Blessing and The Honor and the Glory and the Might forever and ever.” And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

Jesus Christ while on earth, accepted WORSHIP and forgave sins, BOTH only possible as Almighty God!

NONE of your misused verses can disprove FACTS!

Are the following facts? yes or no
"the head of the Christ is God." - 1 Cor 11:3
"then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." -1 Cor 15:28

If quoting scripture is misusing them, then we are all in trouble.

[Difflugia]

NONE of your misused verses can disprove FACTS!

If quoting scripture is misusing them, then we are all in trouble.

This reminds me of 1 Corinthians 15:16-19:

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Its meaning and ironic humor value rather depend on which side of the fence you sit.

[2timothy316]

NONE of your misused verses can disprove FACTS!

If quoting scripture is misusing them, then we are all in trouble.

This reminds me of 1 Corinthians 15:16-19:

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Its meaning and ironic humor value rather depend on which side of the fence you sit.

How can God die? If Christ wasn't actually raised from death then he never died. Yet the trinity has no room for the death of Jesus. Under that logic, we truly are still in our sins.