Newbie Intel

[WebersHome]

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People penned up in the fiery section of Hades may or may not be fully aware of all they've lost. Many are doubtless aware of at least their loss of immortality; but I'm not so sure they know about the bulk of their loss because not even that many Christians are aware of all they've gained by their association with Christ.

We today are living in what's sometimes called the church age; which is an era that began with the day of Pentecost per Acts 2:1-2 wherein Christ has been busy assembling the "my church" he spoke of in Matt 16:18.

The "my church" is very fortunate because it's a joint-heir (a.k.a. heir in common) with God's son in his Father's estate. (Eph 1:11 and Rom 8:16 17)

A joint-heir is different than a regular heir. Regular heirs are apportioned an individual percentage of their benefactor's estate. But joint-heirs inherit, not a percentage, but the entire estate, as community property, i.e. whatever the Father bequeathed His son, He bequeathed everyone associated with His son.

For example: supposing a benefactor's estate totals 60 acres of land, 18 gold bars, plus a hedge fund worth 200,000 US Dollars; and he left it all to six heirs in common. In that situation; the heirs are corporately one beneficiary instead of six; viz: all six inherit all the land, all the gold, and the entire fund as if each one were the only heir.

The extent of the Father's estate is astonishing. It encompasses not only all that is in Heaven, but also whatever pertains to the new cosmos spoken of in Isa 66:17, 2Pet 3:13, and Rev 21:1; and I don't know what else.

• John 3:35 . .The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his hand.

• John 16:15 . . All things that the Father has are mine

• Heb 2:5 . . It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come

It's a good thing that God's son has been appointed chief executive officer of his Father's estate because I don't think anybody else among men could ever be relied upon to manage it properly.

Point being: disbelievers in today's era who fail to be accepted into the "my church" will end up as deprived paupers in the afterlife, whereas those associated with God's son will be members of a powerful oligarchy-- wealthy and privileged beyond imagination.
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[WebersHome]

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• 2Cor 4:16 . .Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

As I decline and wax older and older, I feel a sadness for the loss of my youth. There was a time when I was bright-eyed and bushy-tailed: long winded, active, loaded with stamina and vitality; and could get by with very little rest. The skin on my face, and under my chin, was tight, and my middle was lean and defined. Today I'm sag-bottomed and flaccid; the skin on my neck is drooping and developing the appearance of tortoise hide.

The great cowboy artist Charles Russell once commented that time traded him wrinkles for teeth. Me too. I've lost a few, some are capped, and my gums have receded.

While that was going on inside my mouth, the rest of me was undergoing deterioration too until today, at 77+ the chiseled Greek god with shiny chestnut hair, ripped muscles, and soft hazel eyes I was at 25 has disappeared; replaced by an arthritic senior citizen with diverticulosis and prostate cancer, metal knees, lens implants from cataract surgery, declining short term memory, bags under his eyes, brittle gray filaments on his head instead of the suppleness and sheen of LΌRÉAL tresses, the corners of his mouth turned down giving him the appearance of an old crank, and about as much libido as a dried fig; not to mention taking pills for his thyroid, his cholesterol, his blood pressure, and his reduced kidney function. Whoever said "You're not getting older, you're getting better" must've been smoking mushrooms 'cause it just ain't so.

But the advantage of getting old as a Christian is experiencing for one's self the remarkable truth of 2Cor 4:16 coupled with Rom 8:11 which says:

"If the spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His spirit, who lives in you."

Now; an argument can be made that verse is speaking of the resurrection in store for Christ's followers, but I know for myself-- by comparing the person as I was at 25 with the person I am at 77 --that verse is also speaking of regeneration. Had that process not taken place, there is no question that I would've ended up a lonely antisocial kook or dead from suicide instead of a family man with two grandchildren. I was a really messed up individual.
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[Diagoras]

People penned up in the fiery section of Hades may or may not be fully aware of all they've lost.

I would imagine the eternal suffering would take up much of their thoughts, rather than musing on the finer points of inheritance law. But never having been to Hades, I'm not in a position to know.

Point being: disbelievers in today's era who fail to be accepted into the "my church" will end up as deprived paupers in the afterlife, whereas those associated with God's son will be members of a powerful oligarchy-- wealthy and privileged beyond imagination.

How exactly does 'wealth' work in the afterlife? Is there some form of heavenly currency? I would have thought that if you go to heaven, you'd have every 'need' fulfilled along with everyone else.

Wishing to be rich and powerful after you die seems utterly pointless to me. Ecclesiastes 9:5 comes to mind.

[WebersHome]

I would have thought that if you go to heaven, you'd have every 'need' fulfilled along with everyone else.

I seriously doubt that Heaven's world is the type of society where people depend upon government subsistence.

• 2Thess 3:10-12 . . For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat.

I fully expect Heaven's world to offer folks opportunities to be productive rather than freebies to corrupt their values; especially their work ethics.
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[WebersHome]

Ecclesiastes 9:5 comes to mind.

You could reinforce your source with Ecc 9:10, Ps 146:3-4 and Ps 115:17
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[Diagoras]

I seriously doubt that Heaven's world is the type of society where people depend upon government subsistence.

<snip>

I fully expect Heaven's world to offer folks opportunities to be productive rather than freebies to corrupt their values; especially their work ethics.

What do you mean by 'productive'? What's being produced in heaven?

It puzzles me to imagine the kind of place that you believe will somehow exist after you die: whether it's on Earth or in some spiritual realm, the logic defeats me.

[WebersHome]

What do you mean by 'productive'?

Practically anything from raking leaves to typing a memo or designing a bridge can be categorized as productive, i.e. making one's self useful.

Although death will be abolished in the world to come, I don't think that precludes the necessity for medical professionals. People are still going to experience sprains, broken bones, cuts, concussions, etc that will need treatment. In point of fact, Rev 22:2 suggests the existence of a sort of Big Pharma in the future; consequently the need for druggists.

Plus, Heb 2:5-8 says that the world to come will be governed by humans; so I expect no fewer people busy with governing the future than the amount of people governing the present.
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[Diagoras]

Practically anything from raking leaves to typing a memo or designing a bridge can be categorized as productive, i.e. making one's self useful.

Although death will be abolished in the world to come, I don't think that precludes the necessity for medical professionals. People are still going to experience sprains, broken bones, cuts, concussions, etc that will need treatment. In point of fact, Rev 22:2 suggests the existence of a sort of Big Pharma in the future; consequently the need for druggists.

Plus, Heb 2:5-8 says that the world to come will be governed by humans; so I expect no fewer people busy with governing the future than the amount of people governing the present.

<bolding mine>

Will people still experience ageing though? And will births still happen, or is the population going to remain fixed for eternity?

Are you quite sure you're describing a 'heaven' at all? It all sounds surprisingly similar...

[WebersHome]

Will people still experience ageing though?

1Cor 15:53 says that Christ's people's won't experience decay, i.e. aging.

will births still happen,

The first thousand years of the world to come will be populated with not only Christ's people but also ordinary people too; so yes, there will be marriages and children, a least among the ordinary people.

is the population going to remain fixed for eternity?

That I don't know anything about.

Are you quite sure you're describing a 'heaven' at all?

The first thousand years of the world to come will be located on the current earth in the current cosmos. Afterwards, the current earth and the current cosmos will be obliterated and a new earth and new cosmos brought on line. In other words: the heaven about which I've been speaking won't be located aloft.
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[Diagoras]

[Replying to WebersHome in post #9]

How do you think a death rate of zero, coupled with 'marriages and births among ordinary people' is going to impact this society? Even if it's only for a thousand years, with the current birth rate of 2.41 children per woman a year, you're going to run out of space quite quickly.

I'm also unclear on the "current earth and the current cosmos will be obliterated" bit. When you say 'cosmos', are you referring to the entire universe? I actually agree that it could come to an end, but the timescale's likely to be many orders of magnitude longer than your thousand years. That's based on science, not an interpretation of a holy book.

How are you sure that you've even got the correct book? Christianity isn't unique in believing in the end times.