Hi all! I'm exploring Christianity and am hoping to post a number of questions that have been raised in my mind since I started researching.
It seems the questions I have aren't answered anywhere and so I figured it was time for me to engage more meaningfully with Christian people to try and fill the gaps in my understanding.
First question for discussion.
Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?
And the Bible says God created everything in 6 days - so Eden and Adam and Eve were all the first things to exist in the first 6 days of Creation.
Logic would then suggest the story of the angel getting booted from Heaven and becoming Satan occurs after this time.
So who was the serpent in the Garden? Satan didn't exist yet.
Follow up question (just came to me) - how did Satan not exist yet when the Bible says God created *everything* in 6 days?
Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #11[Replying to nobspeople in post #4]
Yea this raises another question I have.
God created us and we are logical, curious beings with a need for a substantial understanding of things.
Yet he is none of these and still demands we put our faith in him. He understands us completely, yet demands impossible things of us.
It's like he's set us up to fail. The bible also simultaneously demands obedience, while stating obedience won't do anything to save or souls.
If God's priority is to save us, why is he muddying things by also demanding things of us that we can't achieve?
Yea this raises another question I have.
God created us and we are logical, curious beings with a need for a substantial understanding of things.
Yet he is none of these and still demands we put our faith in him. He understands us completely, yet demands impossible things of us.
It's like he's set us up to fail. The bible also simultaneously demands obedience, while stating obedience won't do anything to save or souls.
If God's priority is to save us, why is he muddying things by also demanding things of us that we can't achieve?
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #12nobspeople wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:31 pm
So I'd advise not using logic to understand the bible (or most any religious text).
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #13[Replying to Difflugia in post #5]
IT WAS JUST A SNAKE!!! THANK YOU!!
This answers this one for me, thank you. I had a misunderstanding
IT WAS JUST A SNAKE!!! THANK YOU!!
This answers this one for me, thank you. I had a misunderstanding
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #14Peace to you,
I'm also not sure what you are referring to when you say that a disobedient fallen angel became Satan. Perhaps you could provide a reference? Even though the Adversary corrupted himself, he was still the same being/person. Same as if a human corrupted themselves and got kicked out of somewhere.
Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Yes, the Adversary (the one called Satan) is an angel/seraph/spirit being.PurpleClover wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:26 pm [Replying to tam in post #2]
OK so angels existed, but did Satan?
(Just for clarity, Satan has not always existed. He was created, so before his creation, he did not exist. Same with all angels.)How can we say "Satan has always existed" when the bible tells a story of a disobedient, fallen angel becoming Satan? An event which occurred after the serpent deceived Eve in Eden.
I'm also not sure what you are referring to when you say that a disobedient fallen angel became Satan. Perhaps you could provide a reference? Even though the Adversary corrupted himself, he was still the same being/person. Same as if a human corrupted themselves and got kicked out of somewhere.
Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
- Non-religious Christian spirituality
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
- For Christ (who is the Spirit)
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #15I notice that what I wrote, "Maybe Genesis 3 simply got it all wrong:" doesn't show up under my name, but yours. Strange formatting to say the least. In any case, not being a Christian, I'm actually an atheist, is why my remark probably doesn't sound very Christian. There are several of us who post here, and yes, there are quite a few Christians who admit that the Bible does indeed get some things wrong. Just as god has admitted to having made a mistake or two or thee or four or . . . .PurpleClover wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:30 pmMiles wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:16 amtam wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:33 pm Peace to you!
PurpleClover wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:44 pm Maybe Genesis 3 simply got it all wrong:
I'm sorry?? Doesn't seem a very Christian response....or is it? Are many Christians willing to accept that parts of the bible could simply be "wrong"??
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #16100%PurpleClover wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:34 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #4]
Yea this raises another question I have.
God created us and we are logical, curious beings with a need for a substantial understanding of things.
Yet he is none of these and still demands we put our faith in him. He understands us completely, yet demands impossible things of us.
It's like he's set us up to fail. The bible also simultaneously demands obedience, while stating obedience won't do anything to save or souls.
If God's priority is to save us, why is he muddying things by also demanding things of us that we can't achieve?
It's like god gave humanity the ability to think and be logical, yet requires humanity to do the exact opposite (have faith). It doesn't make sense.
Why did god put the tree to tempt A&E in the garden when it wasn't necessary? What, he couldn't have put the tree somewhere else? Or not at all?
Yeah: SET UP
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #17PurpleClover wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:36 pmnobspeople wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:31 pm
So I'd advise not using logic to understand the bible (or most any religious text).
Feelings maybe?
Which isn't the best way to live IMO, but using logic will do one of three things:
1) confuse you more
2) make you forget logic and assume faith in lack of logic or
3) cause you to forget christianity due to lack of logic and live a normal life.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #18[Replying to Difflugia in post #5]
What say you to this?
"Eze 28:12-15 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. (13) You were in Eden, the garden of God;..."
What say you to this?
"Eze 28:12-15 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. (13) You were in Eden, the garden of God;..."
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #19[Replying to nobspeople in post #16]
Zero response from a Christian on this....I just can't get to a point with any Christian person where I understand their faith. Yet atheists also have faith - you can't prove God doesn't exist either - yet their faith seems based more in reality...I understand their faith. Why would God make things this way? Why would he make it far easier to understand and accept he doesn't exist than that he does?!?!
Zero response from a Christian on this....I just can't get to a point with any Christian person where I understand their faith. Yet atheists also have faith - you can't prove God doesn't exist either - yet their faith seems based more in reality...I understand their faith. Why would God make things this way? Why would he make it far easier to understand and accept he doesn't exist than that he does?!?!
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Re: Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Post #20You've shifted into asking question that would be better served in one of our Debate subforums. This is one of the General Discussion forums not intended for debate. I'd suggest you create a new topic in Christianity and Apologetics to discuss these questions if you intend to start a debate.PurpleClover wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:38 pm [Replying to nobspeople in post #16]
Zero response from a Christian on this....I just can't get to a point with any Christian person where I understand their faith. Yet atheists also have faith - you can't prove God doesn't exist either - yet their faith seems based more in reality...I understand their faith. Why would God make things this way? Why would he make it far easier to understand and accept he doesn't exist than that he does?!?!
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom