Christians! : What would you do if....

What would you do if?

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Would you kill an innocent child if God demanded it of you?

No - but I would still be devoted to him
6
13%
Yes
14
30%
Yes - if it meant safe passage into heaven for me
0
No votes
No - and turn your back on God
27
57%
 
Total votes: 47

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VermilionUK
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Christians! : What would you do if....

Post #1

Post by VermilionUK »

Hypothetically speaking, and assuming God exists:
If you were demanded- by God - to kill an innocent child, would you do it?
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
- Sherlock Holmes -

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Sir Rhetor
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Post #71

Post by Sir Rhetor »

fightwriter wrote:In response to how one knows they're hearing from God without a doubt.....that would be a strong inner urging or pull within yourself alla holy spirit that lines up with the word of God. You might have a pull to do something that you think is of God, but if it doesn't line up with scripture you shouldn't pursue it.
So...stoning of those who work on the Sabbath? That lines up! What would the real difference be if the child was doing work on Sunday?
fightwriter wrote:On telling God no.........I simply accept that he made me, not the other way around.
We call that blind faith. Anyways, it is unlikely that you "simply accept" it. You have undoubtedly been told at one point (probably at an impressionable point at your life) and you now believe.
fightwriter wrote:As you grow older don't you start to notice that "some" older people tend to know what they are talking about? Just seems foolish to put your wisdom and intelligence up against that of the creator's.
But you are assuming that the Bible is the word of God. That is a large assumption to make, given the multiple contradictions in it.
fightwriter wrote:Why a good moral force would have you do this?..........Let me give you an example. When I was a small boy I was on the roof of my house getting a football or some other toy (I can't recall now) that was stuck there. I was afraid to get down. My dad told me to jump and he would catch me. Now apply this story spirtually, if nobody could see my father saying he would catch me and I said dad "aka God" wants me to jump, people would probably say I was a suicidal fool. We think it is the worst thing in the world for someone to die b/c we don't understand life beyond. If God had me kill an innocent child it could be as a favor to the child. It was said he never had a chance to experience "real" life, but I believe he would be getting to skip the heartache filled fallen life and go directly to what real life was intended to be, complete peace joy love and harmony in the presence of God.
So you are justifying taking another's life? Why wouldn't you commit suicide then, given that you see this life as filled with heartache? And again, you are convinced there is an afterlife, even in the absence of all but subjective evidence.

And the difference is that you can see your father, but it would be a different story if the jump was more than 10 feet, say, 100. Would you still jump off a bridge if you only heard the voice?

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ChaosBorders
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Re: Christians! : What would you do if....

Post #72

Post by ChaosBorders »

VermilionUK wrote:Hypothetically speaking, and assuming God exists:
If you were demanded- by God - to kill an innocent child, would you do it?
Extremely unlikely.

A) I believe God is omniscient, meaning God already knows whether I go through with killing the child.
B) If I don't go through with killing the child, God already knew I wouldn't.
C) There would be no point in asking me to do something God already knew I wasn't going to do, unless the reason for asking me to do it has nothing to do with me actually doing it.
D) God is omnipotent and can kill the child himself or force me to do it if the child really needs to die for some reason.
E) So I don't think God really intends for me to kill the child, and if I'm wrong I trust God to take care of it anyways. Thus, I have no reason to kill the child.
Unless indicated otherwise what I say is opinion. (Kudos to Zzyzx for this signature).

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VermilionUK
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Re: Christians! : What would you do if....

Post #73

Post by VermilionUK »

Chaosborders wrote:
VermilionUK wrote:Hypothetically speaking, and assuming God exists:
If you were demanded- by God - to kill an innocent child, would you do it?
Extremely unlikely.

A) I believe God is omniscient, meaning God already knows whether I go through with killing the child.
B) If I don't go through with killing the child, God already knew I wouldn't.
C) There would be no point in asking me to do something God already knew I wasn't going to do, unless the reason for asking me to do it has nothing to do with me actually doing it.
D) God is omnipotent and can kill the child himself or force me to do it if the child really needs to die for some reason.
E) So I don't think God really intends for me to kill the child, and if I'm wrong I trust God to take care of it anyways. Thus, I have no reason to kill the child.
Wow, what a brilliant way to avoid answering the question. :lol:

Hats off to you, sir.
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
- Sherlock Holmes -

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Slopeshoulder
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Post #74

Post by Slopeshoulder »

I will go to my grave with the assumption that God will never directly tell me or you anything, and certainly not to kill a child. If I thought "He" did, I'd hope to God that I had the presence of mind to check myself into a hospital for treatment of delusional psychosis before I got anywhere near the kid.

Clearly if it was THE God (hypothetically), I guess I'd have to trust, but not right away. I'd need to see several forms of ID, which i would present to my psychiatric care team, and ask the G-man in the sky a BIG OL' rationale as to why this, which contradicts all christian teaching, is required.

If I were Abraham, I would have said go to hell to the great lordy a-mighty. But fortunately, the Abraham story is a myth meant to instruct and enlighten, not to set up hypotheticals.
I say this as someone who is a "theist" and a "christian."

BTW, I have to ask, what is the point of this thread?

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Post #75

Post by McCulloch »

Slopeshoulder wrote: BTW, I have to ask, what is the point of this thread?
I think primarily to see if anyone literally believes the Abraham story and sees it as an example to follow. But secondarily to illustrate that unthinking obedience to anything is one of the most, if not the most, evil influences in human kind.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

atheistdebater96
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Post #76

Post by atheistdebater96 »

It worries me to read these responses. I have nightmares about a priest killing me because he thought he was doing god's work. To hear that people don't even have to do anything to be killed, it's gonna be a hard night.

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Misty
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Post #77

Post by Misty »

Anyone who would kill a child because they believed God wished them to do so is either mentally deranged or evil, so is their version of God.

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Cathar1950
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Post #78

Post by Cathar1950 »

It appears in the original story Abraham sacrifices his son and it seems to have been a fertility rite bringing about birth of a great nation. Then later it was rewritten as polemic against the practice and for obedience, not faith as here faith was faithfulness or trust over an against a Pauline interpretation.

.

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Adamoriens
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Post #79

Post by Adamoriens »

We can agree to disagree on the God thing, the question is essentially meaningless if we are talking about an perfect all knowing God. BTW religious folk do say we get our morals from God. Secular folk say we make our own morals. Its called Absolutism vs. Relativism.
It's been a few months since Pastor4Jesus wrote this, but it still bears reply. You'll find that divine-command theory (which Pastor4Jesus subscribes to) is actually a subtype of subjectivism. Ironically enough, so is moral relativism. Absolutism on the other hand would state that certain actions are immoral regardless of whether Yahweh or Allah sanction them. Back to the Euthyphro dilemma.

As for the claims that the Judeo-Christian god would never order the death of a presumably innocent child, this is easily refuted by reference to the Old Testament.

Exodus 12: 29-30.
"Now it came about at midnight that the LORD struck all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of cattle. Pharaoh arose in the night, he and all his servants and all the Egyptians, and there was a great cry in Egypt, for there was no home where there was not someone dead." The case of the Midianite slaughter in the book of Numbers also offers a suitable example.

It's clear that he's ready and willing to kill children.

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Post #80

Post by TheFoolForHimAboveAll »

Once more, starting from the top.
Well, I doubt Atheists will be "all over this condemning" you - however, I am suprised at your response for several reasons and perhaps you would expand your answer to cover these points:
- The child has not done anything negative: ie: It has not sinned
- You are killing the child for no reason other than because God told you
- The child has been denied the chance of "real" physical life

Also, something that is puzzling me:
Why would you not say "no" to God's demands, what stops you from saying "no, I don't think the child deserves to die just because you demand it"?
Children die every day before having a chance to sin. Why does God take their lives? Why deny them a "real" physical life? That is only for God to know and us to guess at.

I answered "yes". Not "Yes, if it meant safe passage to heaven for me". That is bad theology. There is passage to heaven or passage to hell, and there is nothing you can do on earth to guarantee passage to heaven, other than believe on Jesus Christ as Savior, and His Infinite Love and Understanding. So killing the child would do nothing to help me, or hurt me. I would leave it to The Lord for the ids salvation and pray He stops me. If not, then it is God's will.

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