Loyalty

What would you do if?

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Misty
Apprentice
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:14 am
Location: N. Wales

Loyalty

Post #1

Post by Misty »

How far does your loyalty extend? Here are two scenarios

I. A close member of your family has committed a crime, you have asked them to hand themselves in, but they refuse, would you inform the police?

2. The vicar/pastor/priest at your church has been accused of interfering with a child. Some members of the congregation, think it should be covered up because they like his ministry, would you ask the police to investigate?

Thankfully I have never had any experience of this. In the first case I wouldn't let family loyalty get in the way of reporting the family member, even if it was my husband or child, however hard it would be to do so.

In the second case, if I attended a church, I would have no hesitation in reporting the clergyman.

In the 60s the pastor of our pentecostal church, a friend of my parents, volunteered to bring me home each week from the Wednesday night youth service, I was 14. He would drive with his left hand rubbing my thigh, telling me what a beautiful mother I had! In those days my mother was a stunner! I felt uncomfortable, and did mention it to my father who laughed, and didn't treat it seriously! If one of my children reported a similar incident to me the bloke concerned would have not only have his dangly bits tied tight around his neck, I would have asked the police to investigate.

User avatar
ChaosBorders
Site Supporter
Posts: 1966
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:16 am
Location: Austin

Re: Loyalty

Post #2

Post by ChaosBorders »

Misty wrote:How far does your loyalty extend? Here are two scenarios

I. A close member of your family has committed a crime, you have asked them to hand themselves in, but they refuse, would you inform the police?
It would depend upon the crime, the family member, the reasons they committed it, etc. But if it was serious enough that I had actually asked them to hand themselves in, then most likely their refusal would prompt me to inform the police.
Misty wrote: 2. The vicar/pastor/priest at your church has been accused of interfering with a child. Some members of the congregation, think it should be covered up because they like his ministry, would you ask the police to investigate?
In the second case it might depend upon the nature of the accusation and how much information I had in general regarding the situation. On the one hand, it would truly be a shame to accidentally ruin a pastor's life over something that turned out to be a trivial misunderstanding or a flat out false accusation. On the other hand, my personal dislike for those who harm children is to such an extreme that I thank God I've never knowingly met a child molester because there was a time in my life I likely would have killed one off offhandedly and even the much more peaceful and forgiving person I've become might find it difficult to tolerate such a person's presence without wanting to beat them. So I would take such accusations quite seriously and given the slightest reason to believe their truth would almost certainly ask the police to investigate.
Unless indicated otherwise what I say is opinion. (Kudos to Zzyzx for this signature).

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.� -Albert Einstein

The most dangerous ideas in a society are not the ones being argued, but the ones that are assumed.
- C.S. Lewis

User avatar
Misty
Apprentice
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:14 am
Location: N. Wales

Post #3

Post by Misty »

Chaosborders would you have reported the pastor of my church for inappropriate behaviour? Stroking my thigh was bang out of order, even though it didn't go any further. If I had been my parents I would have confronted him, demand his resignation then ask the police to investigate.

User avatar
ChaosBorders
Site Supporter
Posts: 1966
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:16 am
Location: Austin

Post #4

Post by ChaosBorders »

Misty wrote:Chaosborders would you have reported the pastor of my church for inappropriate behaviour? Stroking my thigh was bang out of order, even though it didn't go any further. If I had been my parents I would have confronted him, demand his resignation then ask the police to investigate.
If I had been your parents I probably would have done the same, at least as far as confronting him and possibly asking for his resignation. For sure I would have ceased attending that church the moment my child told me what had happened. Unfortunately, that is not the sort of situation where the police are likely to be able to do anything, so I am not sure I would go that far if I could not turn up more evidence of even greater wrong-doing on my own.

Were it not my own child though, it would be a lot harder for me to do anything because:
A) If the child's parents didn't care I would not likely have heard about it
B) Even if I did somehow hear about it, if I don't know the child, there is unfortunately the issue of whether the kid is telling the truth or not. Having just left teen-hood I am well aware the frequency with which my peers lie, often just to get attention. In matters such as this I am more likely to give the kid the benefit of the doubt than the pastor anyways, but if the parents aren't reacting as if its true and the child does not have any clearly visible signs of distress over the incident then it would likely force me into a wait and see mode. If more accusations of wrong-doing came forth, then I would definitely lean towards the line of thinking of 'if there's smoke there's fire' and personally confront the pastor/leave the church/whatever seemed appropriate based upon the evidence available to me.
Unless indicated otherwise what I say is opinion. (Kudos to Zzyzx for this signature).

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.� -Albert Einstein

The most dangerous ideas in a society are not the ones being argued, but the ones that are assumed.
- C.S. Lewis

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Under Probation
Posts: 18673
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 1628 times
Been thanked: 1117 times

Post #5

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From the OP:
Opie wrote: A close member of your family has committed a crime, you have asked them to hand themselves in, but they refuse, would you inform the police?
Depends on the crime. If they rolled me a hooter I'd be quite pleased.

[edit]
By asking them to turn themselves in I assume it's a crime I would in fact report them for.
[/edit]
Opie wrote: 2. The vicar/pastor/priest at your church has been accused of interfering with a child. Some members of the congregation, think it should be covered up because they like his ministry, would you ask the police to investigate?
"Interfere", to me doesn't really say much (noting the scenario presented later). If the issue is a priest that I have full confidence molested my child, I'd use any and all means at my disposal to kill him. I hold no truck with child molesters / rapists.

User avatar
ChaosBorders
Site Supporter
Posts: 1966
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:16 am
Location: Austin

Post #6

Post by ChaosBorders »

joeyknuccione wrote: "Interfere", to me doesn't really say much (noting the scenario presented later). If the issue is a priest that I have full confidence molested my child, I'd use any and all means at my disposal to kill him. I hold no truck with child molesters / rapists.
Personally, I would try not to kill them since my wife and probably already traumatized child would not benefit from me being in jail. But despite my desire to be a truly forgiving person, the reality is there's a good chance the priest would be dead before the end of the day if I found out he'd hurt my kid. I've always been good at controlling my temper, and since coming to my current view of God I've rarely gotten all that angry, but if there's still one thing that could send me over the edge enough to murder someone it would definitely be that.
Unless indicated otherwise what I say is opinion. (Kudos to Zzyzx for this signature).

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.� -Albert Einstein

The most dangerous ideas in a society are not the ones being argued, but the ones that are assumed.
- C.S. Lewis

TheFoolForHimAboveAll
Student
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:41 am

Post #7

Post by TheFoolForHimAboveAll »

1. A close member of your family has committed a crime, you have asked them to hand themselves in, but they refuse, would you inform the police?
Depends. If it was something like robbing a bank, or blowing up a train, then yes. Most assuredly yes. If it was something like underage drinking or smoking pot, or anything like that then no.
2. The vicar/pastor/priest at your church has been accused of interfering with a child. Some members of the congregation, think it should be covered up because they like his ministry, would you ask the police to investigate?
Yup. Send his pervert butt right to prison. Be stupid to have a minister who can't practice what he preaches.

connermt
Banned
Banned
Posts: 5199
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:58 pm
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Loyalty

Post #8

Post by connermt »

Misty wrote:How far does your loyalty extend? Here are two scenarios

I. A close member of your family has committed a crime, you have asked them to hand themselves in, but they refuse, would you inform the police?

2. The vicar/pastor/priest at your church has been accused of interfering with a child. Some members of the congregation, think it should be covered up because they like his ministry, would you ask the police to investigate?
1) It depends on the crime and the severity of it: stealing a shirt? No. Trying to kill someone? Yes
2) Without hesitation

User avatar
His Name Is John
Site Supporter
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:01 am
Location: London, England

Re: Loyalty

Post #9

Post by His Name Is John »

Misty wrote:How far does your loyalty extend? Here are two scenarios

I. A close member of your family has committed a crime, you have asked them to hand themselves in, but they refuse, would you inform the police?
Depends what crime.

I would probably tell them to hand themselves in rather than doing so myself. But I would never lie for them under oath.


2. The vicar/pastor/priest at your church has been accused of interfering with a child. Some members of the congregation, think it should be covered up because they like his ministry, would you ask the police to investigate?
What kind of person would cover it up? Of course I would inform the police, I would also inform the Bishops confrence of England and Wales.
In the 60s the pastor of our pentecostal church, a friend of my parents, volunteered to bring me home each week from the Wednesday night youth service, I was 14. He would drive with his left hand rubbing my thigh, telling me what a beautiful mother I had! In those days my mother was a stunner! I felt uncomfortable, and did mention it to my father who laughed, and didn't treat it seriously! If one of my children reported a similar incident to me the bloke concerned would have not only have his dangly bits tied tight around his neck, I would have asked the police to investigate.
That is horrible, I would definatly inform the Church elders over that. I don't think you could actually do him for a crime though (no real evidence) so I am not sure if I would report it to the police.
“People generally quarrel because they cannot argue.�
- G.K. Chesterton

“A detective story generally describes six living men discussing how it is that a man is dead. A modern philosophic story generally describes six dead men discussing how any man can possibly be alive.�
- G.K. Chesterton

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Under Probation
Posts: 18673
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 1628 times
Been thanked: 1117 times

Post #10

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Edit to remove contend 'cause every bit I just put up is nigh on word for word what I said there awhile back #-o

And so I find the memory begins to falter, but my position remained consistent :nerd2:
Discovery is finding things that exist.
Invention is using things discovered.

Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.

- William

Post Reply