Copyright-Movie Piracy?

What would you do if?

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whoaaaa
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Copyright-Movie Piracy?

Post #1

Post by whoaaaa »

hey guys, I'm new in this forum.. and I'm a man who want to learn more about the topic above..

I've seen ur thought on the topics before which were also about piracy.. but I'm not sure, if I'm continuing the topic in their thread, will someone read it or not, that's why I'm posting a new one.. :)

Yeah, it's pretty much the same, I want to know what you guys think about MOVIE Piracy itself..?

but, to let you guys know, I promise will read and give response to each of your thought.. especially ur feedback..:)

hope the conclusion from this thread can help us latter on, either you and me..:)

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Adurumus
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Post #2

Post by Adurumus »

I'm going in to the gaming development field, so I'm opposed to piracy. It's kind of a thing you can't fully help, but I refuse to contribute to it.
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whoaaaa
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Post #3

Post by whoaaaa »

Adurumus wrote:I'm going in to the gaming development field, so I'm opposed to piracy. It's kind of a thing you can't fully help, but I refuse to contribute to it.
That's a nice thought! thank you for ur reply.
If i may know, Is there any specific reason, why you refuse to contribute in it, or u just don't want to contribute in it? :)
thank you.. hehe..

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Adurumus
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Post #4

Post by Adurumus »

I refuse to because it doesn't help the industry. There's a difference between hinder and not help, mind you, and I'm not going to say Piracy is stealing. But if you pirate a new game and then not buy it, they're not gaining (losing?) a sale. Sales numbers are very important for the industry to know what customers want and don't want... if they get no returns, they think no one is in the market for games. It shuts down progress.

Used games are worse in my opinion. GameStop makes a massive profit off of them, while game developers get nothing from it. Plus, they always take off a token 5$ or so and place them close enough so that parents who want to save some money can just grab that. It's painful to see games missing out on profits they deserve.
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Post #5

Post by whoaaaa »

Adurumus wrote:I refuse to because it doesn't help the industry. There's a difference between hinder and not help, mind you, and I'm not going to say Piracy is stealing. But if you pirate a new game and then not buy it, they're not gaining (losing?) a sale. Sales numbers are very important for the industry to know what customers want and don't want... if they get no returns, they think no one is in the market for games. It shuts down progress.

Used games are worse in my opinion. GameStop makes a massive profit off of them, while game developers get nothing from it. Plus, they always take off a token 5$ or so and place them close enough so that parents who want to save some money can just grab that. It's painful to see games missing out on profits they deserve.
I see now Adurumus!
thank you for your concern, and yes, I agree that it doesn't help the industry, and because the sales numbers is very crucial for knowing what the customer wants and doesn't wants.
Ah, there's another thing, if I relate this to your previous post about music, don't you think that in the music industry, the sales numbers also important for them to know what the customer wants and doesn't wants, since it's also an entertainment industry..?
don't u think they also need to gain sale?

and if you think it's different, what makes you think of that..?
thank you Adurumus! :)

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Post #6

Post by Adurumus »

My personal affiliation with the gaming industry keeps me closer to that. I don't pirate music, or movies for that matter though. It's because I assume that the people that are in their fields feel the same way about piracy of their subjects like I do mine.

Now, I probably can't persuade you/someone else that free is worse than going to an appropriate store, hope the item is in stock, browse for it in an uncomfortable way and then pay your own real money for it. Just consider that my ability to do the same, and many other's, rely on you doing it to. Sort of like making a law that says "Don't be a jerk"; impossible to enforce, but listen to the spirit.
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whoaaaa
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Post #7

Post by whoaaaa »

Thank you Adurumus for pointing out your thought regarding this topic, I believe I learn something from ur previous post.

I hope others will also give their thought and response towards this latter on, since I still want to learn from tons of people's thought regarding this topic..
hehe..

btw, the main reason for me to focusing more into Movie piracy instead a whole piracy thing because i've read this thread, and find this post.
In my opinion, piracy is only an issue for entertainment companies who are in it for the money. I self-published published a novel, barely broke even and am happy with the results. If I was in it for the money, I never would have done it. I would have written a cookbook or a fireside mystery. Similarly, a musician who loves music will want to write and perform music. If a multi-million dollar contract is waved in his face to do that, then he should jump at the chance, no question. But he's still going to make music no matter how much money you wave at him.

I have also always wondered at the music industry's insistence at demanding outrageously high fees for licenses to use particular songs in movies or TV or even to print lyrics. I would think that this is a form of advertising, at the very least viral marketing. But their strategy seems to be to make the music they control into some sort of magic potion or fool's-gold-en goose, to keep the price high and therefore make it seem to be worth more.

I think piracy is unstoppable and that the entertainment industry is now focusing on dumbing down the population to make them think that there is a difference between legitimate pop-culture sources (cool) and illegitimate ones (dorky).

But as to the morality of piracy, it's theft because they own the material, and it will be theft until they say it isn't. It's theft in the same way that stealing an orange off of a tree is theft.
posted by ST88 on
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=10

somehow I can accept his reason, but as far the movie industry, its always in need of money because the technology in movie industry is still developing and it's money consuming, FYI, the needs for a featured animation like kung-fu panda 2 to be done is more than 500 crews, you can see it on IMDB crews list, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0441773/fullcredits
and they need to pay them for the whole 1 year or more during the making of it, without getting any income. what do you guys think about this?

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Post #8

Post by McCulloch »

To me, ethics all boil down to two very basic concepts: fairness and empathy.

If you download and watch a movie which is not in the public domain, is it fair that you enjoy the benefit of it while others have to pay? How do you feel when something that you worked for, and expected to be paid for, gets taken against your will without payment?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #9

Post by whoaaaa »

thanks McCulloh, so i can assume fairness and empathy are strongly related with duty, or obligation.. Knowing this, can I say, that talking about Piracy, is more than just a problem of a money, which had been posted by the two previous thread?
What I thought is, it's more into Knowing your position, i had saw someone post this before, that, as if he's blaming that the production house is getting rich if they kept buying it from them, or the production house already get so much money as their profit, so losing one/ two millions dollar won't be a problem. Yes, it won't be a problem if you see it from money/ economical Point of View, but think more than that, just like what McCulloh previously mention, it's about fairness and empathy, don't reduce it as if it's only a matter of money.

Before I start going more depth in this topic, I want to write down what I believe, that as a Human, one from many aspects that make us different from other creatures (animal/ plant) is us knowing our duty and our right.

what i mean by Knowing our position?
it's when you understand that you as a consumer, need to do your duty, while demanding for your right. What is your right and what is your duty is what you need to know, instead thinking of others benefit (in this case, the profit that the production house has gained) or this is categorized as stealing or not.
You see, the entertainment industry has done their duty, which is providing an entertainment (in this case, a movie).
Now, what they're asking for? money, do you think it's wrong for them to ask it? I don't think so, it's their right, since they execute their duty.
now, back to us, we're asking for our right to watch it, but we also need to understand what is our duty?
It's to pay what they're asking for, right?

If I need to illustrate this, it's like you're living in a house, it's your house, you've the full ownership in it. But since you're living alone in a house with too many empty rooms, you decided to rent out some of your empty room, maybe it can increase your monthly income. One day, some people coming in, you ask them, "do you KNOW if you want to USE this room, you need to pay?" He replies, "yes of course." then he sleep there, take a bath there, do everything there, as if it's his home. Then one day, the you come and ask him for the money, "I rent out this room, so if you want to use it, you need to pay for it."
then they say, "no, I don't want to pay, you're already rich in this case, your house is so big, and you don't even use this room, so I assume it won't be a problem if I don't pay it." in this case, Yes, the tenant is not taking the ownership of the house you rent, it's still your house. but, what's the problem here?
the owner has fulfill his duty to provide a good empty room, as it should. and he's only asking for his right, to get the money for using his room. Is that so wrong to be blamed?
but what does that man do? he's demanding his right, for using the empty room, but doesn't care for the duty to pay for it.

If you see this, and saying. the tenant doesn't need to pay, he even need to be paid by the owner, because without the tenant, no one will use the empty room, or maybe no one will know if there are rooms to be rent in that place, it's almost the same like you help the owner to promoting it. If you think like that, I think your understanding of right and duty already flipped, it's almost the same like u're saying, if people buy a light bulb, and use the electricity, they need to get paid by the government, because if they're not using the light bulb, and electricity, no one will use it.
does this make sense?
No, it'll make no sense, because they execute their duty by providing electricity and light bulb, and you Want it, while they asking their right, which is your duty for using it, by paying for it.
and yes, it will, only if your understanding of right and duty is flipped. If you're saying you don't want to use the electricity but u're forced to use it, so it's their duty to pay you for using it, I'll say it's already in a different case, because if you don't want to watch that movie from the first, no one will force you to download it.
it's more like a mutually symbiotic system (if you ever learn this).
If you're saying ur consumer will force you to download it, because they want to watch it, not you, so you don't want to get blamed, I believe it's nothing more your own selfishness, wanting money than for your own benefit, for your own profit, by blaming them, for they're forcing you. :)

If there are also Christian whom reading this thread, and giving their excuse for they don't want to participate in buying the original because they know, the one whom using their money, which is the production house, doesn't use it for good, but maybe for doing evil things. I just want to let u guys know, it's their own responsibility towards God, it's their own personal relationship towards God, it's written in the scripture, Romans 13, when Paul's talking about the taxes, it's talking about your obligation as a Christian to follow the law, and it's our own responsibility towards God, we can't blame others for it, because our relationship with God, is a Personal relationship, instead of impersonal relationship.
For it's God whom appoint them as your government. and you also need to understand where's the border line of "Following the Law" written by Paul, instead of blindly following whatever the law says. The only allowance we have for disobeying the authorities is if they demand that we disobey something God has commanded (Acts 5:29). It is not inherently evil to download and share music, movies, etc. However, it is ethically wrong to download and/or share copyrighted music, movies, etc., without the permission of the artist / publisher, which is piracy, because doing so is a violation of the law, and God commands us to obey the law. You need to balance your understanding of those two, because they're like two pillars as a foundation, if one of them is taller than the other one, you'll either falling down into one extreme side or you'll stand sideways. It's not only in the aspect of following the law of human or following the law of Christ, but also in all aspect of Christianity, i.e: love and justice, etc.
and, that's why, IMO, being a Christian, is not a simple task, and we must always and never stop learn from the scripture, that way hopefully, we can stay maintaining the balance.

Well, that's for me.. what do you guys think? :)

Hope I'm getting respond for describing my thought in here..

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Charming Anarchist
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Forcing your neighbor to protect your property is unfair

Post #10

Post by Charming Anarchist »

Copying is not stealing. If you do not want people to copy what you create, then do not throw your creations to the wind.
If you throw your creation to the wind, nobody should be forced to pay to protect it on your behalf.

McCulloch wrote: To me, ethics all boil down to two very basic concepts: fairness and empathy.
Yeah but there is a big problem with your model: Forcing me and your fellow citizens to protect your property is unfair. That is the first injustice in this issue and it deserves to be remedied first before worrying about Fairness(tm) or Empathy(tm) for movie makers as defined by a bloated legal industry no less.

Not everybody watches movies. If you want fairness, it behooves you to incorporate that fact into your legal/moral model.

There is a part of me that has a bit more empathy for the tax-payer and blind people than I do for the people in Hollywood.

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