aimed to all religions (and atheists)

What would you do if?

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TheViral
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aimed to all religions (and atheists)

Post #1

Post by TheViral »

You have decided that a change in faith is in order after proof is revealed that yours is fake (for atheists: a message from a higher power is proven to be legitimate) however you don't know if this is a test or not my question...Is your faith in you religion strong enough to surpass the evidence provided to you by your fellow humans?
(for atheists: do you believe in this religion or risk being judged by humanity?)

P.S this hypothetical religion is the only one left that makes sense

jeager106
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Post #21

Post by jeager106 »

I have got to learn to look at the dates posts were made here.
My "duh". Sorry.
About the jittle, jot, baloney.
Please tell me where that is in the Bible as I doubt it means what you thing it does.
Is this a verse you acutally read??????????????
No! Really? Well aren't we supposed to reference things?
Well please reference it. I can't find it, never have been able to find that "jittle jot' baloney. EXCEPT in one place but I'll leave it to you to find it and quote it here then I'll explain the origins of that.

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Post #22

Post by jeager106 »

Devine Insight said:
And more to the point, this God will have proven beyond any doubt that he is not benevolent, intelligent, wise, loving or anything along those lines at all. On the contrary, he would have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is as malevolent as it gets.

There would be nothing to argue about with such an impossibly hateful God.

Would you care to elaborate on that statement?
About faith: The dictionary definition (from memory) is a believe in that which can niether be proven nor disproven.
Using "faith" and proof or evidence does not mix together.
The concepts oppose.
There is a difference between what is refered to as blind faith and faith based on things that have some substance.
I.e. a gambler might have faith that his roulette number will come up and the gambler will win money.
No basis for that kind of faith as it's nothing more than a belief in a gut hunch.
Faith in a god, as in the God of Christianity comes with lots of anecdotal evidence, if those tow words even go together.
Anecdotal is simply stories not necessarily true or reliable, but based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
The Bible is a collection of works of anecdotal accounts. I lend credibility to the Bible because numerous accounts seem to work together to present messages for the benefit of mankind.
Nothing is in fallable & I realize that. If themes in the Bible seem to contradict then it begs investigation to determine if the meaning was lost to history or the transaltions are in error.

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Divine Insight
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Post #23

Post by Divine Insight »

jeager106 wrote: If themes in the Bible seem to contradict then it begs investigation to determine if the meaning was lost to history or the transaltions are in error.
Does it really matter?

To begin with the stories in the Bible don't merely "seem" to contradict, they do indeed contradict dramatically. There is no doubt about that. That is an obvious and verifiable fact just from reading the stories.

So now the question of whether these were lost in translations is a meaningless question. It really doesn't matter how they were lost. If they were lost, then we no longer have the correct stories. And thus if they stories have anything to do with God we do not have the correct picture of God.

So the bottom line is that the Biblical stories are not trustworthy, nor can they be 100% correct. Therefore rejecting these stories cannot be said to be rejecting any God.

~~~~~~

On the topic of "Faith".

The overall theme of the Bible proclaims that mankind (including myself) has fallen from grace and is not interested in righteousness. In fat, the Bible even claims that men are rebellious against God, and lust after evil.

Why would I want to believe such a derogatory thing as a matter of pure faith on my part.

What would I want to have "faith" that I'm rebellious against my creator and that I lust after evil. I don't believe for a second that this is true. And I certainly see no reason to want to believe in such a negative worldview as a matter of pure faith.

Christianity just takes this scenario and makes it even worse yet. According to Christianity I am so wretched that my creator had to have his only begotten son beaten and nailed to a pole to pay for my rebellious lust for evil.

And I'm supposed to believe this as a matter of FAITH.

Why in the world would I want to believe as a matter of faith that I am that disgusting and unworthy of the love of my very own creator?

There has never been a time in my life when I have "Hated any Creator". Including the Biblical God. I don't hate the Biblical God, on the contrary I simply point out why the Bible cannot be true. This isn't any different from pointing out why Greek Mythology can't be true. If you point out why Zeus is absurd, that doesn't mean that you hate any God. All it means is that you can't see Zeus being God. It makes no sense to you.

And that's the way it is for me with the Hebrew Bible.

I point out that the "God" depicted in the Bible cannot possibly be true.

This says absolutely nothing about any "Real Creator" that might actually exist.

If there is a "Real Creator" who is actually intelligent, wise, and loving, I most certainly have nothing to fear from Her.

But according to the Hebrews and the Christians I have a lot to fear from their God. And rightfully so, because they make their God out to be a real monster who will damn people to hell for the pettiest little things.

I reject the God of the bible, because IMHO, the God depicted in the Bible is an immoral idiot.

And why should I want to place my "Faith" in the idea that I was created by an immoral idiot? :-k

How many times do I need to point out that if there exists a truly wise, intelligent and righteous God then I having nothing to fear from such a God.

And such a God would have never had to have his only begotten son beaten and nailed to a pole to pay for my supposedly rebellious or evil nature. On the contrary, I've done a lot of truly stupid things in my life. Things that I am sorely ashamed of in terms of how utterly stupid they were. But none of those things were "evil", and certainly don't merit being beaten and nailed to a pole.

Nor does it make any sense that I would deserve everlasting punishment or damnation either.

The whole religion is just way out of whack with reason.

If I'm going to place "FAITH" in anything, I would much rather have faith that the Biblical mythology is as false at it can possibly be. That would be faith well spent.

I would rather pure secular materialism is true then the Biblical Mythology.

Fortunately there are other possible scenarios and it reality isn't limited to just being one of those two extremes.

I personally believe that it's possible that something along the lines of Buddhism or Taoism might potentially be true. I don't give up on a possible spiritual reality altogether.

But we all know that Zeus wasn't true, and that doesn't mean that spirituality can't be true. The same goes for the Biblical God. Just because it's false doesn't mean that there can't be a mystical or spiritual essence to life.

There are more possibilities in reality than just pure atheism versus the Bible.

If I'm going to place my faith in anything I'll place it in Eastern Mysticism. Either Taoism, or Buddhism, or something along those philosophical lines.

Why place my faith in a religion that requires that I'm the arch enemy of God?

That seems like a silly place to spend your faith.

Even if you're a Christian who believes in Jesus and is "saved" it was still true that you were the arch enemy of God. According to the religion you were a rebellious person who hated God and lusted after evil before you were "saved". And then you still have that hanging over your head for the rest of eternity.

Like I say, I would rather be a materialistic accident. ;)

Being a pure accident of nature would be better than that.
[center]Image
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]

jeager106
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Post #24

Post by jeager106 »

O.K. I think I understand perfectly what you are saying and what you mean.
You write very, very, well.
You are no doubt very educated and it certainly shows.
:D

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Re: aimed to all religions (and atheists)

Post #25

Post by Hamsaka »

TheViral wrote: You have decided that a change in faith is in order after proof is revealed that yours is fake (for atheists: a message from a higher power is proven to be legitimate) however you don't know if this is a test or not my question...Is your faith in you religion strong enough to surpass the evidence provided to you by your fellow humans?
(for atheists: do you believe in this religion or risk being judged by humanity?)

P.S this hypothetical religion is the only one left that makes sense
Absolutely not. I've basically given up trying to defend any belief, however cherished, from evidence that shows my belief to be in error (in whatever way).

What I believe, whether it keeps me from being judged by others or not, is irrelevant. It just is. I believe what the evidence shows. Evidence is not necessarily 'proofs' or materialistic manifestations, either. And since I am a pretty hard core nonbeliever, and take no joy in provoking or arguing (debate is extremely rare), I keep my thoughts to myself. Unless the context is right, which it very rarely is.

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Re: aimed to all religions (and atheists)

Post #26

Post by Divine Insight »

TheViral wrote: P.S this hypothetical religion is the only one left that makes sense
I'll gladly consider any religion that actually makes sense. In fact, I already do consider such religions (i.e. some versions of Taoism and Buddhism)
TheViral wrote: (for atheists: a message from a higher power is proven to be legitimate) however you don't know if this is a test or not
Proven to be legitimate? I would need to see that proof and decide for myself.

Also, I wouldn't believe any "proof" that the Biblical God is true. I would suspect that aliens have been listening into our TV and Radio signals and have decided to use our religious beliefs to gain our attention and possible cooperation.

Seriously, I would question any "proof" that the Bible is true, and highly suspect that it's some sort of fraud.
[center]Image
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]

BwhoUR
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Re: aimed to all religions (and atheists)

Post #27

Post by BwhoUR »

TheViral wrote: You have decided that a change in faith is in order after proof is revealed that yours is fake (for atheists: a message from a higher power is proven to be legitimate) however you don't know if this is a test or not my question...Is your faith in you religion strong enough to surpass the evidence provided to you by your fellow humans?
(for atheists: do you believe in this religion or risk being judged by humanity?)

P.S this hypothetical religion is the only one left that makes sense
As a former Christian, I can say I already have. So yes, I would go atheist if my religion was proven fake and I am here, being judged by humanity as well.

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