vessels of wrath

What would you do if?

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shnarkle
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vessels of wrath

Post #1

Post by shnarkle »

We've all known or heard of people who have spent many years of their lives dedicated to Christ and the church only to "fall away". We might wonder if they were the type who hears the word and rapidly springs into action only to later be chocked by thorns, or if they were ever saved in the first place. This isn't a "once saved always saved "question.

My question: If God were to reveal to you that you are a vessel of wrath, would you live your life any differently, how? Why or why not?

YahDough
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Re: vessels of wrath

Post #2

Post by YahDough »

shnarkle wrote: We've all known or heard of people who have spent many years of their lives dedicated to Christ and the church only to "fall away". We might wonder if they were the type who hears the word and rapidly springs into action only to later be chocked by thorns, or if they were ever saved in the first place. This isn't a "once saved always saved "question.

My question: If God were to reveal to you that you are a vessel of wrath, would you live your life any differently, how? Why or why not?
I'm a believer in Jesus who makes an effort to listen to the 'voice' of God.
If God were to reveal I was a vessel of wrath, I would have to find out why, plead forgiveness from God through the blood of Jesus and quit doing those things that have prompted His wrath.

Why? Because I want to be saved and be a part of God's kingdom.

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Re: vessels of wrath

Post #3

Post by ElCodeMonkey »

YahDough wrote:
shnarkle wrote: We've all known or heard of people who have spent many years of their lives dedicated to Christ and the church only to "fall away". We might wonder if they were the type who hears the word and rapidly springs into action only to later be chocked by thorns, or if they were ever saved in the first place. This isn't a "once saved always saved "question.

My question: If God were to reveal to you that you are a vessel of wrath, would you live your life any differently, how? Why or why not?
I'm a believer in Jesus who makes an effort to listen to the 'voice' of God.
If God were to reveal I was a vessel of wrath, I would have to find out why, plead forgiveness from God through the blood of Jesus and quit doing those things that have prompted His wrath.

Why? Because I want to be saved and be a part of God's kingdom.
But it says you were created for the very purpose of his wrath. There is no forgiveness in this scenario. You will not be joining his kingdom.
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YahDough
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Re: vessels of wrath

Post #4

Post by YahDough »

ElCodeMonkey wrote:
YahDough wrote:
shnarkle wrote: We've all known or heard of people who have spent many years of their lives dedicated to Christ and the church only to "fall away". We might wonder if they were the type who hears the word and rapidly springs into action only to later be chocked by thorns, or if they were ever saved in the first place. This isn't a "once saved always saved "question.

My question: If God were to reveal to you that you are a vessel of wrath, would you live your life any differently, how? Why or why not?
I'm a believer in Jesus who makes an effort to listen to the 'voice' of God.
If God were to reveal I was a vessel of wrath, I would have to find out why, plead forgiveness from God through the blood of Jesus and quit doing those things that have prompted His wrath.

Why? Because I want to be saved and be a part of God's kingdom.
But it says you were created for the very purpose of his wrath. There is no forgiveness in this scenario. You will not be joining his kingdom.
I suppose I would have to try to change God's mind about me and hope for the best. Moses changed God's mind about Israel.

All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.Ps:25:10:
Last edited by YahDough on Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: vessels of wrath

Post #5

Post by ElCodeMonkey »

[Replying to post 4 by YahDough]

So if we assume he simply told you then dropped you back to Earth with no room for conversation, would you spend all your life praying and fasting or something?
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YahDough
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Re: vessels of wrath

Post #6

Post by YahDough »

ElCodeMonkey wrote: [Replying to post 4 by YahDough]

So if we assume he simply told you then dropped you back to Earth with no room for conversation, would you spend all your life praying and fasting or something?
I suppose I would do whatever it took. Salvation and peace with God is a very valuable gift, wouldn't you say? :)

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Re: vessels of wrath

Post #7

Post by ElCodeMonkey »

YahDough wrote:
ElCodeMonkey wrote: [Replying to post 4 by YahDough]

So if we assume he simply told you then dropped you back to Earth with no room for conversation, would you spend all your life praying and fasting or something?
I suppose I would do whatever it took. Salvation and peace with God is a very valuable gift, wouldn't you say? :)
I dunno, it's almost like saying it's a gift every day that I don't water-board you for being you. I know you see it differently, of course, and surely if this God does exist and there are no alternatives then it would likely be in my best interest to do what it takes as well, but I dunno. I hope never to be faced with the decision between eternal torment and going against my values.
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YahDough
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Re: vessels of wrath

Post #8

Post by YahDough »

ElCodeMonkey wrote:
YahDough wrote:
ElCodeMonkey wrote: [Replying to post 4 by YahDough]

So if we assume he simply told you then dropped you back to Earth with no room for conversation, would you spend all your life praying and fasting or something?
I suppose I would do whatever it took. Salvation and peace with God is a very valuable gift, wouldn't you say? :)
I dunno, it's almost like saying it's a gift every day that I don't water-board you for being you. I know you see it differently, of course, and surely if this God does exist and there are no alternatives then it would likely be in my best interest to do what it takes as well, but I dunno. I hope never to be faced with the decision between eternal torment and going against my values.
"Eternal (everlasting) torment" is not in the nature of a a just God. That is religious dogma. But judgement and the power of eternal life and eternal death are. What are your "values" that would keep you from the blessings of God?

shnarkle
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Re: vessels of wrath

Post #9

Post by shnarkle »

YahDough wrote:
shnarkle wrote: We've all known or heard of people who have spent many years of their lives dedicated to Christ and the church only to "fall away". We might wonder if they were the type who hears the word and rapidly springs into action only to later be chocked by thorns, or if they were ever saved in the first place. This isn't a "once saved always saved "question.

My question: If God were to reveal to you that you are a vessel of wrath, would you live your life any differently, how? Why or why not?
I'm a believer in Jesus who makes an effort to listen to the 'voice' of God.
If God were to reveal I was a vessel of wrath, I would have to find out why, plead forgiveness from God through the blood of Jesus and quit doing those things that have prompted His wrath.

Why? Because I want to be saved and be a part of God's kingdom.
shnarkle: Interesting reply. It seems that this would be a logical response, but it goes against the doctrine of a works based salvation. When we see that there is nothing that we can do to save ourselves that would presumably include pleading, and refraining from sinful behavior. The Pharisees refrained from sinful behavior, and were even notorious for their conspicuous adherence to the laws of God, this was useless to save them.

I have a follow up question for you: Given that there is no chance of being a part of God's kingdom since you are a vessel of wrath, is there any other reason that you can think of to "quit doing those things that have prompted His wrath"? I would assume that these things that you say prompted His wrath would be transgressions of God's laws, no? If so, do you see any other reason to keep God's laws even if you are predestined to wrath?

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Re: vessels of wrath

Post #10

Post by Goat »

shnarkle wrote:
YahDough wrote:
shnarkle wrote: We've all known or heard of people who have spent many years of their lives dedicated to Christ and the church only to "fall away". We might wonder if they were the type who hears the word and rapidly springs into action only to later be chocked by thorns, or if they were ever saved in the first place. This isn't a "once saved always saved "question.

My question: If God were to reveal to you that you are a vessel of wrath, would you live your life any differently, how? Why or why not?
I'm a believer in Jesus who makes an effort to listen to the 'voice' of God.
If God were to reveal I was a vessel of wrath, I would have to find out why, plead forgiveness from God through the blood of Jesus and quit doing those things that have prompted His wrath.

Why? Because I want to be saved and be a part of God's kingdom.
shnarkle: Interesting reply. It seems that this would be a logical response, but it goes against the doctrine of a works based salvation. When we see that there is nothing that we can do to save ourselves that would presumably include pleading, and refraining from sinful behavior. The Pharisees refrained from sinful behavior, and were even notorious for their conspicuous adherence to the laws of God, this was useless to save them.

I have a follow up question for you: Given that there is no chance of being a part of God's kingdom since you are a vessel of wrath, is there any other reason that you can think of to "quit doing those things that have prompted His wrath"? I would assume that these things that you say prompted His wrath would be transgressions of God's laws, no? If so, do you see any other reason to keep God's laws even if you are predestined to wrath?
Since that entire concept is unjust and unholy to begin with, any God that has it is not a God that would be worthy to worship, and therefore the entire concept is moot.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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