The uncertainties of life and the vicissitudes of existence do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities. Consider the following:
1. Is courage -- strength of character -- desirable? Then must man be reared in an environment which necessitates grappling with hardships and reacting to disappointments.
2. Is altruism -- service of one's fellows -- desirable? Then must life experience provide for encountering situations of social inequality.
3. Is hope -- the grandeur of trust -- desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.
4. Is faith -- the supreme assertion of human thought -- desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.
5. Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where error is present and falsehood always possible.
6. Is idealism -- the approaching concept of the divine -- desirable? Then must man struggle in an environment of relative goodness and beauty, surroundings stimulative of the irrepressible reach for better things.
7. Is loyalty -- devotion to highest duty -- desirable? Then must man carry on amid the possibilities of betrayal and desertion. The valor of devotion to duty consists in the implied danger of default.
8. Is unselfishness -- the spirit of self-forgetfulness -- desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.
9. Is pleasure -- the satisfaction of happiness -- desirable? Then must man live in a world where the alternative of pain and the likelihood of suffering are ever-present experiential possibilities.
***Excerpt from the Urantia Book
The Inevitabilities
Moderator: Moderators
Post #2
There exists a competitive social desire that encompass' status, power, wealth, and fame.
There exists a cooperative social desire that encompass' 'do gooding'.
The difference between the two, is one you can always run out of. It's fallible, temporary, and only satisfies the one person.
The cooperative desire is infinite, just like the moral listings you've made. And it's also more difficult because there's less or no recognition.
In having to be recognized by god for our acts, we fall victim to social and religious contract theory. Which is, in a nutshell, do good things, and you will be rewarded. Do bad things, and you'll be punished.
That idea is in no way humanistic, because the person ultimately isn't having good intentions, they're having selfish intentions.
There exists a cooperative social desire that encompass' 'do gooding'.
The difference between the two, is one you can always run out of. It's fallible, temporary, and only satisfies the one person.
The cooperative desire is infinite, just like the moral listings you've made. And it's also more difficult because there's less or no recognition.
In having to be recognized by god for our acts, we fall victim to social and religious contract theory. Which is, in a nutshell, do good things, and you will be rewarded. Do bad things, and you'll be punished.
That idea is in no way humanistic, because the person ultimately isn't having good intentions, they're having selfish intentions.
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McCulloch
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Re: The Inevitabilities
Post #3So we can have evolution with the idea of God's existence. Evolution (unlike creationism) does not need or depend on the idea of God's existence, but it will happily co-exist with the God hypothesis, if you really need it to.Arie wrote:The uncertainties of life and the vicissitudes of existence do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
Post #4
Hello Everyone 
McCulloch,
Evolution is completely compatible with faith in God. I was just watching a documentary last night on this whole evolution/creationism debate called "Dodo's... " something. In my mind, there is truth on both sides. The Christians believe in God and that He created the universe which is correct. The scientists believe that evolution is the technique as to how life came to be on this planet. Now, they both can let go of the controversy if they both unite in the sense that God created evolution. Life on this world wasn't a cosmic accident, it was designed by higher divine beings. Evolution is part of the divine plan.
36:5.1 "It is the presence of the seven adjutant mind-spirits on the primitive worlds that conditions the course of organic evolution; that explains why evolution is purposeful and not accidental. These adjutants represent that function of the mind ministry of the Infinite Spirit which is extended to the lower orders of intelligent life through the operations of a local universe Mother Spirit. The adjutants are the children of the Universe Mother Spirit and constitute her personal ministry to the material minds of the realms. Wherever and whenever such mind is manifest, these spirits are variously functioning."
Sledheavy,
I think you are right in the sense that someone can be a complete jerk in this life and still become materially successful. In fact, part of the origin of the concept of hell arose because it was widespreadly believed that righeousness was associated with prosperity. If you were good, you will become rich. So when these humans saw the ungodly with wealth, their reality began to crumble a bit so they invented places of future punishment for these heathens. I still believe the idea of reaping what you sow is correct in a spiritual sense even though it may not completely come to pass on this world.
89:8.6 "But the idea of making a covenant with the gods did finally arrive. Evolutionary man eventually acquired such moral dignity that he dared to bargain with his gods. And so the business of offering sacrifices gradually developed into the game of man's philosophic bargaining with God. And all this represented a new device for insuring against bad luck or, rather, an enhanced technique for the more definite purchase of prosperity. Do not entertain the mistaken idea that these early sacrifices were a free gift to the gods, a spontaneous offering of gratitude or thanksgiving; they were not expressions of true worship."
McCulloch,
Evolution is completely compatible with faith in God. I was just watching a documentary last night on this whole evolution/creationism debate called "Dodo's... " something. In my mind, there is truth on both sides. The Christians believe in God and that He created the universe which is correct. The scientists believe that evolution is the technique as to how life came to be on this planet. Now, they both can let go of the controversy if they both unite in the sense that God created evolution. Life on this world wasn't a cosmic accident, it was designed by higher divine beings. Evolution is part of the divine plan.
36:5.1 "It is the presence of the seven adjutant mind-spirits on the primitive worlds that conditions the course of organic evolution; that explains why evolution is purposeful and not accidental. These adjutants represent that function of the mind ministry of the Infinite Spirit which is extended to the lower orders of intelligent life through the operations of a local universe Mother Spirit. The adjutants are the children of the Universe Mother Spirit and constitute her personal ministry to the material minds of the realms. Wherever and whenever such mind is manifest, these spirits are variously functioning."
Sledheavy,
I think you are right in the sense that someone can be a complete jerk in this life and still become materially successful. In fact, part of the origin of the concept of hell arose because it was widespreadly believed that righeousness was associated with prosperity. If you were good, you will become rich. So when these humans saw the ungodly with wealth, their reality began to crumble a bit so they invented places of future punishment for these heathens. I still believe the idea of reaping what you sow is correct in a spiritual sense even though it may not completely come to pass on this world.
89:8.6 "But the idea of making a covenant with the gods did finally arrive. Evolutionary man eventually acquired such moral dignity that he dared to bargain with his gods. And so the business of offering sacrifices gradually developed into the game of man's philosophic bargaining with God. And all this represented a new device for insuring against bad luck or, rather, an enhanced technique for the more definite purchase of prosperity. Do not entertain the mistaken idea that these early sacrifices were a free gift to the gods, a spontaneous offering of gratitude or thanksgiving; they were not expressions of true worship."
Post #5
well...that's probably not what I was trying to point out. But if you're satisfied with yourself and you've found a valid conclusion, I find no problem presently.Arie wrote:Hello Everyone
McCulloch,
Evolution is completely compatible with faith in God. I was just watching a documentary last night on this whole evolution/creationism debate called "Dodo's... " something. In my mind, there is truth on both sides. The Christians believe in God and that He created the universe which is correct. The scientists believe that evolution is the technique as to how life came to be on this planet. Now, they both can let go of the controversy if they both unite in the sense that God created evolution. Life on this world wasn't a cosmic accident, it was designed by higher divine beings. Evolution is part of the divine plan.
36:5.1 "It is the presence of the seven adjutant mind-spirits on the primitive worlds that conditions the course of organic evolution; that explains why evolution is purposeful and not accidental. These adjutants represent that function of the mind ministry of the Infinite Spirit which is extended to the lower orders of intelligent life through the operations of a local universe Mother Spirit. The adjutants are the children of the Universe Mother Spirit and constitute her personal ministry to the material minds of the realms. Wherever and whenever such mind is manifest, these spirits are variously functioning."
Sledheavy,
I think you are right in the sense that someone can be a complete jerk in this life and still become materially successful. In fact, part of the origin of the concept of hell arose because it was widespreadly believed that righeousness was associated with prosperity. If you were good, you will become rich. So when these humans saw the ungodly with wealth, their reality began to crumble a bit so they invented places of future punishment for these heathens. I still believe the idea of reaping what you sow is correct in a spiritual sense even though it may not completely come to pass on this world.
89:8.6 "But the idea of making a covenant with the gods did finally arrive. Evolutionary man eventually acquired such moral dignity that he dared to bargain with his gods. And so the business of offering sacrifices gradually developed into the game of man's philosophic bargaining with God. And all this represented a new device for insuring against bad luck or, rather, an enhanced technique for the more definite purchase of prosperity. Do not entertain the mistaken idea that these early sacrifices were a free gift to the gods, a spontaneous offering of gratitude or thanksgiving; they were not expressions of true worship."
