Would you kill to gain entery to heaven?

[crystalmage]

In the old testament god commands you to kill people such as homosexuals, you wife, you kids ... to gain entery to heaven. I believe, I can't remember the exact passages and when I asked on another forum the christians wouldn't tell me.

1 god commands you to kill people.
2 christ says only those that are free from sin may cast the first stone.
3 christ died washing all our sins away.
4 now that all our sins are gone ... If the bible is the word of god... god is pretty specific about what we must do.

[crystalmage]

Arn't any christians going to show me the obvious flaws in my argument? Or am I right that as a christian you should be killing people?

[Talisman]

Well, what do you think, not as a Christian, but as a human being ? Is it okay to kill people simply because they choose (not that being gay is a choice you understand) a different lifestyle to your own ? How would it be if the boot was on the other foot and God told homosexuals to kill so called straight people ? Would that be right bearing in mind also that one of the 10 commandments is thou shalt not kill ?

June

[achilles12604]

Arn't any christians going to show me the obvious flaws in my argument? Or am I right that as a christian you should be killing people?

The first flaw in your argument is that there are no passages at all in the OT where God specifically orders the murder of anyone with the result being entry into heaven. Thus since your OP is an incorrect assumption based on faulty knowledge of the OT, I don't think anyone feels the need to address it.

[crystalmage]

The first flaw in your argument is that there are no passages at all in the OT where God specifically orders the murder of anyone with the result being entry into heaven.

Your right It doesn't actually start heaven as the reward for killing but god still commands you to kill.

Leviticus 20
Punishments for Sin
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives [a] any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him. 3 I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of his children to Molech and they fail to put him to death, 5 I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech.

6 " 'I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people.

7 " 'Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. 8 Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

11 " 'If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

12 " 'If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.

13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

14 " 'If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

15 " 'If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.

16 " 'If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

17 " 'If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be cut off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.

18 " 'If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.

19 " 'Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.

20 " 'If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless.

21 " 'If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

22 " 'Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, "You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey." I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations.

25 " 'You must therefore make a distinction between clean and unclean animals and between unclean and clean birds. Do not defile yourselves by any animal or bird or anything that moves along the ground—those which I have set apart as unclean for you. 26 You are to be holy to me [c] because I, the LORD, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.

27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' "

[crystalmage]

In the old testament god commands you to kill people such as homosexuals, you wife, you kids ... to gain entery to heaven.

So i was wrong about the entery to heaven i guess. Although I don't know how you expect to gain entery to heaven when you are deliberitly disobeying gods commands. But I don't know the bible well enough to argue that.

1 god commands you to kill people.
2 christ says only those that are free from sin may cast the first stone.
3 christ died washing all our sins away.
4 now that all our sins are gone ... If the bible is the word of god... god is pretty specific about what we must do.

This still remains though.
1 does god or does god not command you to kill people?
3 Did christ die for our sins or not?
4 now that all our sins are gone ... If the bible is the word of god... god is pretty specific about what we must do to obey gods will.[/

[sledheavy]

Well what about the concept of dying for the same idea? Someone looking for a chance to die or kill is probably the most hefty flaw to these situations.

I would think that anyone not taking up the opportunities to look for morality and virtue in mundane situations should be as closely considered as someone just looking for an excuse to die for salvation. Both seem rather petty to me to some degree.

[john_anthony_gonzalez]

In the old testament god commands you to kill people such as homosexuals, you wife, you kids ... to gain entery to heaven. I believe, I can't remember the exact passages and when I asked on another forum the christians wouldn't tell me.

1 god commands you to kill people.
2 christ says only those that are free from sin may cast the first stone.
3 christ died washing all our sins away.
4 now that all our sins are gone ... If the bible is the word of god... god is pretty specific about what we must do.

In the old testament Sin was punishable by physical death

In the new testament Sin is punished by spiritual death

and im still not sure what the question your asking is

[achilles12604]

The first flaw in your argument is that there are no passages at all in the OT where God specifically orders the murder of anyone with the result being entry into heaven.

Your right It doesn't actually start heaven as the reward for killing but god still commands you to kill.

Leviticus 20

You like so many before you are simply pointing to the few passages you can to try and discredit the OT. However, as I have pointed out on numerous occasions (strangely about as many times as when these passages are used by non-theists) the OT and the NT are not the same religion. In fact they are not even meant for the same religion.

So defending Christianity really doesn't require me to answer this. However, that being said, let me point out that much of the OT was written and re-written by man. Therefore man inserted his opinions from time to time. I find it perfectly possible that much of the violence of the OT attributed to God is men using God as an excuse.

Of course like I have said, and keep saying, the OT and NT are two different sets of instructions for two different sets of people. Thus I feel no real need to defend Hebrew faith today.

[john_anthony_gonzalez]

In the old testament god commands you to kill people such as homosexuals, you wife, you kids ... to gain entery to heaven.

So i was wrong about the entery to heaven i guess. Although I don't know how you expect to gain entery to heaven when you are deliberitly disobeying gods commands. But I don't know the bible well enough to argue that.

1 god commands you to kill people.
2 christ says only those that are free from sin may cast the first stone.
3 christ died washing all our sins away.
4 now that all our sins are gone ... If the bible is the word of god... god is pretty specific about what we must do.

This still remains though.
1 does god or does god not command you to kill people?
3 Did christ die for our sins or not?
4 now that all our sins are gone ... If the bible is the word of god... god is pretty specific about what we must do to obey gods will.[/

1.God did command death to those who broke the OT law
God gave moses the laws, Moses laid it out for them

God took the Israelites out of egypt so in exchange he instructed them on how to live.
2. Yes Christ died for our sins, so that means he died for every ones sins. Past Present and Future sins.
3. I dont understand the last question, can you rephrase it