Withdrawing life support

[Confused]

I am often in situations where families look to me for advice on what they should do when a loved one is on life support with almost no hope of any meaningful recovery. By meaningful, I mean they will never be off the ventilator, they will be fed through a tube in their stomach, they will never be able to show any signs of being conscious of their surroundings.

Looking at that persons living will, they request every effort be made to continue their life. Their living will is 20 years old and is no longer even valid. But the division between family members has created an ethical dilemma that forgets about what is in the patients best interests.

In such circumstances, what advice would you give the family as a whole? Recall, like it or not, you WILL influence this families decision.

Why would you give the advice you chose?

[Beto]

I generally think that these decisions bring about an extraordinary emotional growth, and are very "valuable" and a "luxury" in that regard. Is it our place to rob people of that experience by giving them someone to blame later on, when they regret their decision? And I'm sure they will. In these instances it's not really "advice" people get (regardless of what you think you're giving), it will be a "tell me what to do", and if we give them an excuse they will take no responsibility for it. In my opinion, the suffering any decision on this matter will undoubtedly bring, may be harder to cope with, but will be much more valuable in our growth as human beings, if we assume full responsibility for it.

[Hope]

As given to Rebecah:
“In life our most precious thought before work of love, is another’s work. This means when one is given My honor of allowing them time to help one who they live with, then to honor Me alone, this work must remain theirs until I end it. If your ones of heart stay in My thoughts as breath of life be given Me, I say they remain live until death be given of My thought they.
Do you think God can change what man has presented this His child?
Then know I am with him until I call him home to Me.�
–God

[FinalEnigma]

I generally think that these decisions bring about an extraordinary emotional growth, and are very "valuable" and a "luxury" in that regard. Is it our place to rob people of that experience by giving them someone to blame later on, when they regret their decision? And I'm sure they will. In these instances it's not really "advice" people get (regardless of what you think you're giving), it will be a "tell me what to do", and if we give them an excuse they will take no responsibility for it. In my opinion, the suffering any decision on this matter will undoubtedly bring, may be harder to cope with, but will be much more valuable in our growth as human beings, if we assume full responsibility for it.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the value in having to make that kind of decision. I don't know that it will make you grow in any way, and will certainly cause a lot of discomfort to you.

And believe me, feeling responsible for the death(or torture in the case of one like Shivoh who may have been fully aware of her body as she dehydrated to death.) of someone close to you is not generally good for emotional growth.

the more I think the more offended I become. you could well end up feeling solely responsible for the death of a loved one if for example, you decided to pull the plug but the autopsy showed that there was a reasonable chance that they would regain consciousness. I know firsthand that feeling responsible for the death of someone close to you sucks big time. I have been unable to do something for over two years. And then you talk of not wanting to rob me of that 'luxury'?

I darn well would choose someone I don't know and will probably never see again being angry with me and blaming me for the rest of their life over inflicting that kind of guilt on them. I do however, hesitate over whether I can rightly make that decision.

and I'm going to stop now before I go any further.

[Beto]

And believe me, feeling responsible for the death(or torture in the case of one like Shivoh who may have been fully aware of her body as she dehydrated to death.) of someone close to you is not generally good for emotional growth.

"Feeling responsible" and "guilty" are definitely not, and I never advocated these emotions. There's absolutely no reason for them in the situation I'm addressing, unless you had a crystal ball in your back pocket and neglected to use it. I'm sorry if you failed to realize this.

you could well end up feeling solely responsible for the death of a loved one if for example, you decided to pull the plug but the autopsy showed that there was a reasonable chance that they would regain consciousness. I know firsthand that feeling responsible for the death of someone close to you sucks big time. I have been unable to do something for over two years. And then you talk of not wanting to rob me of that 'luxury'?

I don't relate to that one bit, and can't think of a polite way to respond.

I do however, hesitate over whether I can rightly make that decision.

Out of respect for our loved ones, no one else can, unless you care to leave it up to "God".

and I'm going to stop now before I go any further.

If you have something to say, say it.

[FinalEnigma]

And believe me, feeling responsible for the death(or torture in the case of one like Shivoh who may have been fully aware of her body as she dehydrated to death.) of someone close to you is not generally good for emotional growth.

"Feeling responsible" and "guilty" are definitely not, and I never advocated these emotions. There's absolutely no reason for them in the situation I'm addressing, unless you had a crystal ball in your back pocket and neglected to use it. I'm sorry if you failed to realize this.

I don't understand. guilt has no place because one couldn't possibly know what will happen? that doesn't stop people from feeling guilty.

you could well end up feeling solely responsible for the death of a loved one if for example, you decided to pull the plug but the autopsy showed that there was a reasonable chance that they would regain consciousness. I know firsthand that feeling responsible for the death of someone close to you sucks big time. I have been unable to do something for over two years. And then you talk of not wanting to rob me of that 'luxury'?

I don't relate to that one bit, and can't think of a polite way to respond.

Sorry, I got a bit aggressive. I hope you can forgive me considering what I thought you were saying.

I do however, hesitate over whether I can rightly make that decision.

Out of respect for our loved ones, no one else can, unless you care to leave it up to "God".

I meant I hesitate over the OP-whether I have the right to tell someone what they should do with their loved one.

and I'm going to stop now before I go any further.

If you have something to say, say it.

I was just attempting to avoid getting too far outside the rules. I was very offended by the apparent implication.

to make things more clear to me, could you explain the opportunity for emotional growth in the situation? I just don't see it.

[Beto]

I don't understand. guilt has no place because one couldn't possibly know what will happen? that doesn't stop people from feeling guilty.

Why not? If you know you had nothing but concern for the well-being (or well-not-being as opposed to bad-being) of a loved one, and you know you had all the available information pending an autopsy, what is there to feel guilty about?

I meant I hesitate over the OP-whether I have the right to tell someone what they should do with their loved one.

Got it, sorry.

to make things more clear to me, could you explain the opportunity for emotional growth in the situation? I just don't see it.

I realize it's a bit out there to simply claim pain and suffering bring about emotional growth, as the spectrum is quite large. Intense physical pain, I think, is quite traumatizing and not much good for anything. In retrospect, "sadness" may be the emotion I think makes one mature faster, and the association of sadness with the responsibility one calls to oneself in these big decisions makes for extraordinary growth. I do realize one in the situation will not see it like that. But I see people that never lacked material comfort and concerns, and they generally appear to me as rather empty in the emotional intelligence department. Guilt, however, eats one up inside, and when there's nothing to feel guilty about, it's not just a waste of living, it's not the best tribute one can do to a departed loved one, that in life, would probably have agreed with you.