Perspectives from Paganism

[Karl]

(Piper Plexed - Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:59 am - 'Wicca, Witchcraft and New Age religions' thread)
Seems prudent (lets discuss Wicca), actually now that I think of it, lets put your history in Definitions and Explanations and link to it from here to allow those that are interested (I could bet that there are many) to pop over and learn. This will allow us to continue the discussion of it's impact on society here ....

I'll let Moonchild expound on her own Wiccan trad.

A good general overview of Wiccan trads can be viewed here:
http://www.witchvox.com/xbasics.html

(Dilettante - Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:12 pm - 'Question for Karl' thread)
You classified yourself as "pagan". Now, what we here in the former Roman Empire understand for "pagan" is someone who lives out in the "pagus" or countryside. I guess you would call that a bumpkin. But I bet that's not what you mean when you call yourself a pagan. Other meanings are:
1. a polytheist,
2. a heathen, unenlightened person
3. an irreligious hedonist.

So what kind of pagan are you? I don't see you as unenlightened. Do any of the above definitions suit you? If not, please give your own.

Thanks!

(Piper Plexed - Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:55 am - 'Wicca, Witchcraft and New Age religions' thread)
I would like to know a bit more about the history, if there are delineated sects of paganism and where they originated from. Regards, Pipper

For a good general outline of Pagan religions one can visit this link:
http://www.witchvox.com/basics/intro.html

Dillettante is right about the original derivation of the word "Pagan". Pagans are In Tune with the Divine as Expressed in Nature ("of the Earth") and its associated Symbolism and cycles. Wicca and Paganism are NOT IN ANY WAY associated with Satanism. Pagans do not believe in bibledevil. The notion that they "sacrifice newborns" is totally ludicrous and reprehensible.

As far as the word "bumpkin" goes, not everyone from the country is an uneducated dolt.
You can have those in cities as well. I am a Naturist, but I am most certainly not an "irreligious hedonist". Two of the most ancient religions in the world are Hinduism and Kemet.

KEMET - The Religion of Ancient Egypt

Today, the main version of Kemet is Orthodoxy. I am more Mystical and Universal. If you want to learn about Kemetic Orthodoxy you can visit http://www.kemet.org/home.html
I am not a member of that organization.

The Concept in Kemet is MONOLATRY.

(from the Kemet website)
The Kemetic Orthodox faith, both in its modern and ancient practice, is a monolatrous religion. Monolatry is a different concept than monotheism, where it is believed God manifests in one form and one form only, nor is it an undifferentiated polytheism, where many gods appear in many separate and distinct forms. Monolatry is a special form of polytheism , having a multi-god structure still providing the possibility of understanding all divine beings as part of one divine source. A monolatrous religion professes one divine force (Netjer in the Kemetic language, meaning "divine power") that is in turn comprised of other separate, yet interlinked aspects, like a team can be defined both as one entity (the sum of its parts) and by individual members themselves. The "gods and goddesses" of Ancient Egypt, while clearly differentiated from each other in some respects and not as clearly in others, also each represent an aspect of Netjer, as Its Names (after the practice of recognizing Netjer "in Its Name of..." in ritual invocations). The Names of Netjer are in addition to being individual entities, also representative aspects of the Self-Created One, and are parts of that whole Being. Each Name of Netjer, like the parts of the human body, has differing structure and function, yet each part is required to constitute the entire Person.

I also see the Divinities as Living Principles. My Concept is Triadic, as per the Living Polarities and observed associated Signatures in Nature. The Polarities of the Intelligent Primordial Field are evident throughout the Living Universe, which means that I am also a Pantheist.

My own personal Perspective of Mystical Kemet can be read in an Adult Essay I did for Witchvox last year. The link is:
http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_article.h ... mi&id=8599
DePalma's article 'ON THE NATURE OF THE PRIMORDIAL FIELD that I reference in my essay can be read here:
http://depalma.pair.com/Absurdity/Absur ... Field.html

Dillettante & Piper, hopefully this will help give you a better basic understanding.
We will be happy to answer any questions you may have.

K

[Dilettante]

Thanks for the information, Karl. By the way, I only used the word "bumpkin" in a jocular spirit (and the joke would be on me since I live in the countryside myself). It may well be that the bad connotations that the word "pagan" still has today for many people stem from the fact that it was used in a derogatory sense by urban Christians to refer to those people who had not been Christianized yet because they lived out in rural areas (Christianity was introduced in my country by the rank and file Roman soldiers and it naturally reached the cities long before it could reach the countryside). An interesting fact is that, in some rural areas in my country, Christianity even today appears mixed with vestiges of the old paganism. I guess it makes sense that country dwellers, since they are in closer contact with nature, should have retained pagan elements in their religion. In addition to this, their religion (Roman Catholicism) is easier to combine with certain pagan ideas than Protestantism.

[Karl]

Thanks for the information, Karl. By the way, I only used the word "bumpkin" in a jocular spirit (and the joke would be on me since I live in the countryside myself). It may well be that the bad connotations that the word "pagan" still has today for many people stem from the fact that it was used in a derogatory sense by urban Christians to refer to those people who had not been Christianized yet because they lived out in rural areas (Christianity was introduced in my country by the rank and file Roman soldiers and it naturally reached the cities long before it could reach the countryside). An interesting fact is that, in some rural areas in my country, Christianity even today appears mixed with vestiges of the old paganism. I guess it makes sense that country dwellers, since they are in closer contact with nature, should have retained pagan elements in their religion. In addition to this, their religion (Roman Catholicism) is easier to combine with certain pagan ideas than Protestantism.

You are most welcome, Dilettante, and....I agree. Your religion has more of a Pagan flavor than you may know. It stared with the ancient Hebrews.

One scholar writes:

(Karen Armstrong - A History of Jerusalem, page 23)
Israel emerged peacefully and gradually from within Canaanite society.

The chief God of the ancient Pagan Canaanite Pantheon was called EL. The Egyptian Moon God was called YAH. Both of these Names were in use before the ancient Hebrews came to be a separate people, yet the Hebrews adapted them into their culture and OT scriptures. (e.g. EL Shaddai, EL Elyon, IsRaEL, YAH, YAHweh, etc.). Also interesting is the OT Name ImManuEL, which includes the Hindu MANU. The Female Consort of the Pagan Diety EL, was Asherah.

Sufi Mystic and Master Hazrat Inayat Khan writes in his superb book, 'The Music of Life': (cap emphasis mine)

(from 'The Music of Life' - page 29)
The word Allah, which in Arabic means God, if divided into three parts may be interpreted as "the One Who comes from Nothing". EL or Ellah has the same meaning as Allah. The biblical words Eloi, Elohim, and HalleluYah are related to the word Allahu. The words Om, Omen, Amen, and Amin, which are spoken in ALL houses of prayer are of the SAME ORIGIN.

The Names Amun/Amen (Ra) of course, existed in Egypt as well.

(Ha'aretz Magazine - October 1999)
"It will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."

In other words, the ancient Hebrews ended up only finally rejecting Asherah, the Female Consort of EL, after the 8th century BCE when they became patriarchal and phallocentric.

(Ze'ev Herzog - Professor of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University)
At two sites, Kuntilet Ajrud in the southwestern part of the Negev hill region, and Khirbet el-Kom in the Judea piedmont, Hebrew inscriptions have been found that mention 'YHWH and his Asherah', 'YHWH Shomron and his Asherah', 'YHWH Teman and his Asherah'. These inscriptions, from the 8th century BCE, raise the possibility that monotheism, as a state religion, is actually an innovation of the period of the Kingdom of Judea, following the destruction of the Kingdom of Israel.

In the Biblical NT, the Christ is referred to as The Logos (John 1:1). The Greek Pagan Philosopher Heraclitus of Ephesus (c540 BCE - 475 BCE) was already using the term Logos:

(Heraclitus Fragment 2)
"We should let ourselves be guided by what is common to all. Yet, although the Logos is common to all, most men live as if each of them had a private intelligence of his own.

(Heraclitus Fragment 50)
Listening not to me but to the Logos, it is wise to acknowledge that all things are one.

(Heraclitus Fragment 72)
Although intimately connected with the Logos, men keep setting themselves against it.

Perhaps this sounds vaguely familiar to Christians:

(Heraclitus Fragment 52)
Time is a child moving counters in a game; the royal power is a child's.

To me, The Logos/Power equates to the S(u/o)n Child in the physical, the indwelling Soul Spark at the Soul Level, and The Light at the end of the tunnel that NDEs have seen in the Spirit Realm, but who survived to come back to their bodies and report what they experienced. There were many Religious Dramas and Illustrative Myths in ancient times that portrayed basically the same concepts in similar stories. That is how the ancients taught Esoteric Precepts. Problems arise when things are literalized that have no business being literalized.

As you can see, the origins of EL are...PAGAN, as is the term LOGOS. Shaitan was the name of the God of the Sumerians (who was demonized into "Satan")...which is typical of anti-cultural superstition....then.... the Christians and Muslims borrowed it from the Hebrews. In Roman Mythology, which existed before Christianity, Lucifer was the son of Aurora, the Goddess of the Dawn (hence the Biblical "son of the morning"). My concept of "the adversary" is the unenlightened lower self (Christians might say "the old man"), and nothing more.

IMO, there is no "only true" religion. As I have said before, religion is merely an external framework in which Spirituality is supposed to Operate. Mankind will not survive by arguing and fighting about dogmatic or traditional or Conceptual differences. The only thing that matters is loving and respecting one's neighbor as one's self, no matter what religious framework they choose to honor the Divine with. If there is True Devotion to the Divine within, LOVE, LIGHT AND LIFE will be in evidence, both in people's lives, and in a world of Peace, Harmony, Freedom, Mutual Respect, Cooperation and Societal Advancement/Evolution.

BB.

K