What do muslims believe in??????

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Murad
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What do muslims believe in??????

Post #1

Post by Murad »

Hello All.

Ive noticed that nobody on this website really knows what Islam is?
And some ignorant people i've met on this website make assumptions about Islam without knowledge.

Well let me brief over islam to eliminate some "Assumptions" :)

A follower of Islam is called a muslim.

Now what exactly does a muslim follow:

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Like Jews, Muslims believe in 1 God, he is the sustainer, the all powerful, the all mercyful and the all just. Also like Jews, Muslims believe that the trinity cannot exist and it is pure blasphemy to God. But unlike Jews, muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet and a messenger, BUT the muslim account of Jesus is very different AND very similar at the same time. (How exactly click the link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

The Beliefs of Islam
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1.Who and what is God(Allah) in Islam?
No vision can grasp him, but his grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things. Quran
There is only one true God and his name is Allah. Allah is all knowing, all-powerful and sovereign judge. Yet Allah is not a personal God, for he is so far above man in every way that he is not personally knowable. The emphasis of the God of Islam is on judgment and power, not grace and mercy. To the Muslim mind, calling God father means God connotes sexual relationship.
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2. Creations of Allah

Angels in Islam serve Allah’s will such as Gabriel delivering the Qoran to Mohammed. Angels do not perform any bodily functions (sexual, eating., etc) as they are created of light. Angels serve different purposes; each person has two recording angels who record his/her good or bad deeds

Jinn: Are spiritual beings created out of fire….who are ranked between angels and men and can be either good or bad. Satan was a Jinn and not a fallen angel according to Islam.

Satan: A Jinn who refused to fall prostrate before Adam after he was created. He is the leader of evil ones in the world
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3. Scripture

There are four inspired books in Islam: Quran, Torah, Ingil and Zabur. The Torah, Ingil and Zabur: “Books of Moses, The Gospel of Jesus, and Psalms of David� These are books mentioned in the Quran as God’s Word but most Muslims feel the current books are corrupt. For this reason Allah gave Mohammed the “Quran�.
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4. Prophets

In Islam God has spoken through numerous prophets down through the centuries, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammmad, he is the seal of the prophets (Being the last one)
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5. Last Days
The last days will be a time of Ressurrection and Judgment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_vi ... t_Judgment
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JESUS(ISA) in Islam:



According to Islamic texts, Jesus was divinely chosen to preach the message of monotheism and submission to the will of God to the Children of Israel. Muslims believe that God revealed to Jesus a new scripture, the Injīl (gospel), while also declaring the truth of the previous revelations – the Tawrat (Torah) and the Zabur (Psalms)
"And behold! God will say: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).


Muhammad in Islam:

Muhammad(Peace be upon him) in Islam is the "Seal of the prophethood"
Meaning after him, there shall be no other prophets(Although Jesus will return to earth)


He is only a man, a servant of God, powerless without god.
Praise be to god, the only deity worth worshiping.

Quotes from Muhammad:
"I am a Prophet of Allah but I do not know what will be my end."
"O Allah! I am but a man. If I hurt any one in any manner, then forgive me and do not punish me."
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To sum it up quickly.
Muslims believe in 1 god and that he is the only deity worthy of worship.
Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Abraham etc... are Prophets and Servents of God.



Peace to all

Believers, Jews, Sabaeans and Christians -
whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -
shall have nothing to fear or regret.
-- Sura 5:69


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McCulloch
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Post #2

Post by McCulloch »

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Woland
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Post #3

Post by Woland »

Hello Murad,

I have a few questions for you.

1. Do you believe that, according to Islam, stoning anyone is wrong under any circumstances?

2. Do you believe that, according to Islam, beating your wife is always wrong, no matter the circumstances?

3. Do you believe that, according to Islam, whipping anyone is wrong?

4. Do you believe that, according to Islam, killing apostates for leaving Islam is always wrong?

5. Do you believe that, according to Islam, genocide is always wrong? (i.e. that Muhammad did not genocide everyone in the Banu Quraiza who had pubic hair)

6. Do you believe that, according to Islam, slavery is always wrong?

7. Do you believe that, according to Islam, everyone should have equal worshipping and proselytizing rights? This includes Christians and Hindus in Muslim countries having the same exact rights as Muslims in secular countries.

8. Do you believe that, according to Islam, women and men are considered to be equal in front of the law? This means that a woman's testimonial is always equal to that of a man.

Do you acknowledge that many mainstream denominations of Islam (and a significant proportion of Muslims worldwide) fail to agree with all or most of the above questions?

Woland

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Post #4

Post by Murad »

All your questions reffer to 'Sharia Law'
Yes im for sharia law.


1. Do you believe that, according to Islam, stoning anyone is wrong under any circumstances?


Depends on the reason, for example if its adultry then in sharia law yes stoning can be applied.

2. Do you believe that, according to Islam, beating your wife is always wrong, no matter the circumstances?

No, it depends on the "circumstances"

3. Do you believe that, according to Islam, whipping anyone is wrong?

If its for punishment then no, there are also rules on how many slashes you apply for each type of crime.

4. Do you believe that, according to Islam, killing apostates for leaving Islam is always wrong?

Hmm tricky subject. If you live in an Islamic Republic and you apostate then yes Sharia Law says there is the death penalty.

5. Do you believe that, according to Islam, genocide is always wrong? (i.e. that Muhammad did not genocide everyone in the Banu Quraiza who had pubic hair)

You say "Always wrong", nothing is always wrong, it depends on the circumstances.

6. Do you believe that, according to Islam, slavery is always wrong?

This day and age, slavery is wrong, but as you can read from the old testament some of the prophets had slaves and servants.


7. Do you believe that, according to Islam, everyone should have equal worshipping and proselytizing rights? This includes Christians and Hindus in Muslim countries having the same exact rights as Muslims in secular countries.


Not if you live in an "Islamic Republic"

8. Do you believe that, according to Islam, women and men are considered to be equal in front of the law? This means that a woman's testimonial is always equal to that of a man.
"Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."

Do you acknowledge that many mainstream denominations of Islam (and a significant proportion of Muslims worldwide) fail to agree with all or most of the above questions?
Agree with what exactly?
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

(Quran 29:2-3)

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Why Jesus is NOT God
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Woland
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Post #5

Post by Woland »

Hello Murad,

It seems I'm not making many assumptions about Islam being a barbaric religion, since you agree with me that it condones barbaric, inhuman, unjust, immoral actions.

I'm glad that you answered truthfully so that all could see you define blatant barbarity as divine justice.

Now, on with the show.
Murad wrote:All your questions reffer to 'Sharia Law'
Yes im for sharia law.
Yes, they do, and I'm not at all surprised to see that, as a "peaceful Muslim", you readily support all sorts of insanities because you were taught that they are what God requires of his servants.

I purposefully phrase my questions in ways that force the Muslim I'm debating with to admit to the barbaric beliefs he adheres to, and I still haven't met a Muslim who knew anything about his religion who didn't believe in the "perfect justice" of dispensing unspeakable atrocities on behalf of "Allah". It is my experience that most Muslims will avoid these topics whenever they can and quote a peaceful verse in the Quran for every 10 hateful ones that you bring as if the former exonerated the latter.

Sharia law is the vilest infection on planet Earth, and untold suffering occurs daily because of its being applied as it was intended to be.
Murad wrote:
1. Do you believe that, according to Islam, stoning anyone is wrong under any circumstances?


Depends on the reason, for example if its adultry then in sharia law yes stoning can be applied.
Despicable.

You believe in stoning adults for consensual sex, when what they do is none of your business.

Stoning is the most barbaric expression of Islam.

I've seen the frenzied faces of the brainwashed fools who "piously" bludgeon innocent people to death with stones, and I will never forget that people like you and others who call themselves "moderate, peaceful Muslims" are potentially among these.
Murad wrote: 2. Do you believe that, according to Islam, beating your wife is always wrong, no matter the circumstances?

No, it depends on the "circumstances"
Despicable.

You believe that it can sometimes be alright to inflict physical pain on someone you are explicitly supposed to love and protect.

There are no words to express how immoral such an action is.
Murad wrote: 3. Do you believe that, according to Islam, whipping anyone is wrong?

If its for punishment then no, there are also rules on how many slashes you apply for each type of crime.
Add this to the list of inhuman punishments supported by Islam and its adherents.
Murad wrote: 4. Do you believe that, according to Islam, killing apostates for leaving Islam is always wrong?

Hmm tricky subject. If you live in an Islamic Republic and you apostate then yes Sharia Law says there is the death penalty.
So much for freedom of religion and of thought.

I'm sure that you're one of those who would tell me all about how Islam is tolerant if I hadn't asked you directly about this.

What a pathetic belief system.

It's astounding that even one human being would subscribe to such filth these days.

It was one thing when the bloody, lecherous warlord Muhammad and his desert pirates invented a hateful belief system to justify their lust and sordid deeds, but the fact that someone who knows how to use the Internet believes that the aforementioned belief system is anything less than pure garbage is a testament to human gullibility.
Murad wrote: 5. Do you believe that, according to Islam, genocide is always wrong? (i.e. that Muhammad did not genocide everyone in the Banu Quraiza who had pubic hair)

You say "Always wrong", nothing is always wrong, it depends on the circumstances.
Answer the question. Did Muhammad (great example for mankind, remember?) genocide everyone who had pubic hair in the Banu Quraiza, or not?
Murad wrote: 6. Do you believe that, according to Islam, slavery is always wrong?

This day and age, slavery is wrong, but as you can read from the old testament some of the prophets had slaves and servants.
Your Tu Quoque is irrelevant. I consider Christianity to be exceptionally ridiculous and hateful, but it falls short of Islam's insanity by light years.

Did your great example prophet enslave people, or not?

Is there any verse in the Quran stating that slavery is prohibited?

Is there any verse in the Quran stating that slavery will suddenly become unacceptable and unethical as time goes by?

That's what I thought.
Murad wrote:
7. Do you believe that, according to Islam, everyone should have equal worshipping and proselytizing rights? This includes Christians and Hindus in Muslim countries having the same exact rights as Muslims in secular countries.


Not if you live in an "Islamic Republic"
As I thought: no equal rights in Islam. Add that to the list.

Do you realize that if you were to proclaim your beliefs in public in the West, EVERYONE would look at you like you were an insane person? They do not yet understand that your views are widely circulated among Muslims.

Most Westerners project their own personalities onto Muslims.
"They're just like me, they like freedom and peace, etc."

Little do they know about Islam's true nature, which is why the West has been so generous, tolerant and patient with this insane ideology of hatred and dehumanization.

Every single time a Muslim like you is cornered into admitting just how hateful the mainstream versions of Islam are, it helps save innocent human being by educating one, then two, then three ignorant Westerners.

Please don't stop.
Murad wrote: 8. Do you believe that, according to Islam, women and men are considered to be equal in front of the law? This means that a woman's testimonial is always equal to that of a man.
"Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."
Your avoidance tactics are quite transparent.

Address my question directly, please.
Do women have equal rights in front of the law in Islam?

I suppose it must make you uncomfortable to outright state that your religion considers women's testimonials to be worth half of that of men. You should listen to the human in you telling you that there's no valid reason to discriminate against women, even if a lecherous, long-dead desert barbarian said that you should.
Murad wrote: Do you acknowledge that many mainstream denominations of Islam (and a significant proportion of Muslims worldwide) fail to agree with all or most of the above questions?
Agree with what exactly?
I was asking you if you thought that the mainstream versions of Islam are as hateful as your own.

Well, that should just about do it.

I suppose I'll add another question, just for fun:

Do you believe that it is fitting of a self-proclaimed great example for mankind to marry a 6 year old girl when he is over 50?

Woland

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Post #6

Post by Murad »

You wanted answers, i gave them to you, you are subjected to your own opinions, your word 'filth' and 'despicable' doesnt mean anything to me, so dont be afraid to repeat it :D
Despicable.
Ok
Despicable.

You believe that it can sometimes be alright to inflict physical pain on someone you are explicitly supposed to love and protect.
Read the Quran.
Add this to the list of inhuman punishments supported by Islam and its adherents.

Done.
What a pathetic belief system.
Cool, no ones forcing you to believe.

Is there any verse in the Quran stating that slavery is prohibited?
Not that i know of.
Answer the question. Did Muhammad (great example for mankind, remember?) genocide everyone who had pubic hair in the Banu Quraiza, or not?
Nice man, you really done your homework.
It could be Yes or No, infact there are many hadiths(writings about the prophet) which have different stories on what happened on the day, so its basically up to each individual to decide what happened on that day. You are subjected to your own opinion.

Is there any verse in the Quran stating that slavery will suddenly become unacceptable and unethical as time goes by?
No it does not, but it says to treat your slaves/servants with care, also slaves are not a necessity but if you have one(example prisoners from war) you have to treat well.
Theres no such thing as a 'Slave' in any muslim country at this time though.

That's what I thought.
Nice you can think.
Most Westerners project their own personalities onto Muslims.
"They're just like me, they like freedom and peace, etc."

Little do they know about Islam's true nature, which is why the West has been so generous, tolerant and patient with this insane ideology of hatred and dehumanization.
I think your mixing terrorists(islamic extremists) with real muslims. And trust me Sharia law isnt as bad as it looks(infact why would i be a muslim if it was), its the only way for 100% order and peace.
Do women have equal rights in front of the law in Islam?
No men are 1 higher than women, in islam a man is the leader of the family and the woman is the leader of the children. You have to read the Quran to understand where a man and a woman stands in Sharia Law.
Fact: More than half of the converts to Islam in America are Women... :whistle:

Do you believe that it is fitting of a self-proclaimed great example for mankind to marry a 6 year old girl when he is over 50?

Back then people used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar. Aisha(prophets wife) had past puberty and thus was legal to marry.
Her parents suggested that she be married to the prophet, and infact if you read her writings you will see she praises the prophet more than any other companion of the prophet.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

(Quran 29:2-3)

----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---

Woland
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Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:13 pm

Post #7

Post by Woland »

Hello Murad,
Murad wrote: your word 'filth' and 'despicable' doesnt mean anything to me, so dont be afraid to repeat it :D
I was very aware of that.

You simply do not understand the repercussions of the hate you promote and are astoundingly oblivious, like virtually all Muslims (or religionists of all times who have adhered to sick cults), to the true nature of the cult you mindlessly adhere to because, in all probability, you were raised as a Muslim and just swallowed up all the blatant stupidities Muslim parents and societies usually feed their children.

At least you didn't even try to deny that Islam is a barbaric religion.

Murad wrote:
Despicable.

You believe that it can sometimes be alright to inflict physical pain on someone you are explicitly supposed to love and protect.
Read the Quran.
I have.

It's a patently immoral book filled with scientific blunders (not "mistranslation", not "out of context", just pure lies and nonsense), supremacist and misogynist garbage, and calls to violence absolutely unfit of any human, much less of any "prophet" or any "God". That even one human being believes "Allah" could qualify as a supreme being only means that critical thought in humans can reasonably easily be supressed via brainwashing through fear of Hell, supremacist ideas, and constant mindless bowing towards a stone. Death threats for apostasy help.

It's so ridiculous that you have a hard time believing anyone could make this up, much less believe it.

The revered Sahih Hadith of most mainstream Islamic denominations are even worse than the Quran.
Murad wrote:
Add this to the list of inhuman punishments supported by Islam and its adherents.

Done.
At least you're honest about how cruel and barbaric your religion is.
Murad wrote:
What a pathetic belief system.
Cool, no ones forcing you to believe.
That's because I don't live in an Islamic Republic.
Murad wrote:
Is there any verse in the Quran stating that slavery is prohibited?
Not that i know of.
Me neither! What a coincidence!

Could it be that you're making up the whole "slavery is wrong today" excuse because YOU happen to think that slavery is wrong when your own "great example prophet" had no problem enslaving scores of people?

I'm grateful for one thing: most modern Muslims (and even most fanatical Muslims) aren't as barbaric as their prophet was.
Murad wrote:
Answer the question. Did Muhammad (great example for mankind, remember?) genocide everyone who had pubic hair in the Banu Quraiza, or not?
Nice man, you really done your homework.
It could be Yes or No, infact there are many hadiths(writings about the prophet) which have different stories on what happened on the day, so its basically up to each individual to decide what happened on that day. You are subjected to your own opinion.
I've been studying your cult for years.
The usual Muslim fallacies, diversions and lies will not work with me.

If your cult founder had genocided an entire tribe and used pubic hair presence as the criterion for killing or enslaving, would that seem immoral and unworthy of a divine prophet to you?

Of course not. You would never dare to say that such a thing would unconditionally be immoral. Would you?

Nope.

You are forced to define every single immoral deed (and there are many, obviously) of your divine warlord Muhammad as being virtuous. Seeing the lot of you loop your own fallacies as you lie to yourselves endlessly to avoid an imaginary place of eternal torture by a "merciful god" is beyond sad.
Murad wrote:
Is there any verse in the Quran stating that slavery will suddenly become unacceptable and unethical as time goes by?
No it does not, but it says to treat your slaves/servants with care, also slaves are not a necessity but if you have one(example prisoners from war) you have to treat well.
Theres no such thing as a 'Slave' in any muslim country at this time though.
Do you deny that several Muslim countries, unsurprisingly enough when you look at the man they worship, took much longer than the rest of the civilized world to abolish slavery?

Do you deny that pressures from the civilized world played a huge part in this?
Murad wrote:
Most Westerners project their own personalities onto Muslims.
"They're just like me, they like freedom and peace, etc."

Little do they know about Islam's true nature, which is why the West has been so generous, tolerant and patient with this insane ideology of hatred and dehumanization.
I think your mixing terrorists(islamic extremists) with real muslims. And trust me Sharia law isnt as bad as it looks(infact why would i be a muslim if it was), its the only way for 100% order and peace.
Wow. The paragraph above is typical of Muslim mentality.

I'll go through the motions even if I've no hope of making you see any further than your Islam. Muslims are generally, in my experience, much more brainwashed than even Christians, and this is even truer of Muslims like you who support Sharia.
Murad wrote: I think your mixing terrorists(islamic extremists) with real muslims
You ARE the Islamic "extremist", just like so many of your brethren who proclaim themselves "real Muslims" . You believe it's correct to inflict all sorts of barbaric punishments and death on human beings for thought crimes or victimless "crimes". You quite probably believe that every non-Muslim is bound to Hell to be tortured eternally.

This is fanaticism, extremism, and dogmatism in action. Of course, just like all the brainwashed people in the world, you don't realize that you are brainwashed and are perfectly certain of the worth of your position.
Murad wrote:And trust me Sharia law isnt as bad as it looks(infact why would i be a muslim if it was)
Ridiculous. As if, as a victim of your delusion and upbringing, you would ever be ab;e to recognize that you believe in immoral nonsense.

Watch: "Trust me, Nazism isn't as bad as it looks, in fact why would I be a Nazi if it was"?
Murad wrote: its the only way for 100% order and peace
No. This is a lie, and it will not be accepted.

Sharia law is the certain path to institutionalized oppression and state-sponsered thuggery.

All countries who apply Sharia are hellholes to the exact extent to which Sharia matters to them. Rape and sexual harrassment are rampant in Muslim countries (who don't even dare report the stats - can you guess why?).

Peace does not involve oppression of religious minorities. It does not involve persecution of gays and apostates. It does not involve stoning people for consensual sex. It does not involve women being considered as less than equal to men in front of the law.

That you think peace and order are compatible with Sharia necessarily means that you have an incredibly twisted worldview.
Murad wrote:
Do women have equal rights in front of the law in Islam?
No men are 1 higher than women, in islam a man is the leader of the family and the woman is the leader of the children. You have to read the Quran to understand where a man and a woman stands in Sharia Law.
Fact: More than half of the converts to Islam in America are Women... :whistle:
What's your point? Women are just as subject to irrational, hateful delusions as are men.

Most Islamic converts in America are nothing like you - the ones who don't soon de-convert again, I mean. They don't know anything about Islam and they've only heard the usual lies and dawah attempts by pseudo-peaceful Muslims. They would think you are a "false Muslim" for supporting all sorts of oppression and atrocities.
Murad wrote:
Do you believe that it is fitting of a self-proclaimed great example for mankind to marry a 6 year old girl when he is over 50?
Back then people used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar. Aisha(prophets wife) had past puberty and thus was legal to marry.
Her parents suggested that she be married to the prophet, and infact if you read her writings you will see she praises the prophet more than any other companion of the prophet.
To summarize, you think it can be perfectly normal for a man in his fifties to lust after a 6 year old girl and to have sexual relationships with her when she is 9, only to later marry a bunch of other women. You also think that such a man could qualify as a prophet for a God despite the obvious fact that his marrying an extremely young girl has spawned endless child abuse in the Islamic world that continues to this day.

Extremely young women are not biologically OR psychologically ready for being a mother, but it looks like Allah was more preoccupied with satisfying Muhammad's lust than ensuring the safety of futre Muslim children.

Pathetic.

Woland

Murad
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Post #8

Post by Murad »

You ARE the Islamic "extremist", just like so many of your brethren who proclaim themselves "real Muslims" . You believe it's correct to inflict all sorts of barbaric punishments and death on human beings for thought crimes or victimless "crimes". You quite probably believe that every non-Muslim is bound to Hell to be tortured eternally.
Opinions...... who says you have the authority to judge?
We MUSLIMS judge on extremism, your judgement is irrelivant.
That's because I don't live in an Islamic Republic.
Exactly, so whats your problem.

I'm grateful for one thing: most modern Muslims (and even most fanatical Muslims) aren't as barbaric as their prophet was.
Oh you would wish we were more like our prophet, if only we were.

You are forced to define every single immoral deed
Whos forcing me? I dont think anyone has power to force a 'terrorist' dont you?
Do you deny that several Muslim countries, unsurprisingly enough when you look at the man they worship, took much longer than the rest of the civilized world to abolish slavery?
Man they worship? Hmm im starting to deny you actually read the Quran just like you claim.
Muslims are generally, in my experience, much more brainwashed than even Christians, and this is even truer of Muslims like you who support Sharia.
Brainwashed? It is you that is brainwashed, by the porn, immorality and mere atmosphere of what you call 'westernmism'
Sharia Law is the best of government hands down.

Ridiculous. As if, as a victim of your delusion and upbringing, you would ever be ab;e to recognize that you believe in immoral nonsense.
Again you are stating your opinions, good for you champ.

Sharia law is the certain path to institutionalized oppression and state-sponsered thuggery.
Oppression? Yes, oppression against sin and immorality, thuggery? opinions once again...

They would think you are a "false Muslim" for supporting all sorts of oppression and atrocities.
Oh yeh, your post is all the same, opinions opinions opinions....
Its actually funny that you are claiming to speak for American Muslims :D
You also think that such a man could qualify as a prophet for a God despite the obvious fact that his marrying an extremely young girl has spawned endless child abuse in the Islamic world that continues to this day.
Show me verifable evidence that aisha was subjected to child abuse.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

(Quran 29:2-3)

----
Why Jesus is NOT God
---

Woland
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Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:13 pm

Post #9

Post by Woland »

Hello Murad,
Murad wrote: Opinions...... who says you have the authority to judge?
We MUSLIMS judge on extremism, your judgement is irrelivant.
Muslims like you are the fanatics that enable the persecution of Muslims and non-Muslims alike worldwide at the hands of the Islamic clergy which justifies its sordid deeds straight out of the Quran and Sahih Hadith, and there are many.

They are not "misinterpreters" or "fake Muslims". All Muslims think themselves "the only true Muslims", which would be funny if it didn't cause so much violence. The Quran and Hadith are garbage books that can easily be used to justify any atrocity, the same as you do for stoning, oppression, etc.
Murad wrote:
That's because I don't live in an Islamic Republic.
Exactly, so whats your problem.
What a short-sighted, selfish, hypocritical person you are.
Do you care that "poor, poor Palestinians" are oppressed?
Do you care about Iraq? Afghanistan?
Probably.

"But you don't live there so what's your problem". Let me guess, they are your brothers and sisters in religion. People like you don't have any link with humans in general, only with the other members of the sub-cult of Islam you adhere to.

What an intellectual child. Refuting Muslims is always a chore, and a useless one at that: the likes of you are so full of themselves that they will never admit just how childish and ridiculous their responses are - not even to themselves. Islam massacres the human brain's ability to think critically from childhood.
Murad wrote:
I'm grateful for one thing: most modern Muslims (and even most fanatical Muslims) aren't as barbaric as their prophet was.
Oh you would wish we were more like our prophet, if only we were.
If only you were, there would be even more Jew hatred in the Islamic world.
There would be even more state-sponsored brutality against innocents like apostates and homosexuals.
There would be even more sexually repressed Muslims who dream of 72 virgins - what a joke.
There would be even more old pedophiles (like Muhammad) who justify their lust for little girls with the actions of their prophet.
Murad wrote:
You are forced to define every single immoral deed
Whos forcing me? I dont think anyone has power to force a 'terrorist' dont you?
Your childish, hateful delusion forces you to consider everything Muhammad (and his talking puppet Allah) said as being flawlessly moral. This means, as has been shown time and again in this thread alone, that you have to support blatantly inhuman treatment of others, institutionalized oppresion, denial of freedom of speech and thought, denial of freedom to worship, denial of equal rights for non-Muslims and Muslims, denial of equal rights for men and women...

You are stuck at the morality level of a 7th century barbarian desert pirate.

It's no wonder Muslims like you have turned all of their countries into hellholes that they desperately try to escape only to attempt to turn the generous states that receive them in other Islamic hellholes.

They don't realize their religion and beliefs are rotten to the core.
Murad wrote:
Do you deny that several Muslim countries, unsurprisingly enough when you look at the man they worship, took much longer than the rest of the civilized world to abolish slavery?
Man they worship? Hmm im starting to deny you actually read the Quran just like you claim.
There is no Allah.

Islam is the personality cult of a barbaric, lecherous, greedy man who thought (with reason) that he could exploit ignorant people and make them believe he had a link with the divine - just like thousands of others have done before and since him. The threats of violence and general barbarity of Islam, as well as the conditions of the time, quite readily explain why he "succeeded" where most other "pirates for God" failed.
Murad wrote:
Muslims are generally, in my experience, much more brainwashed than even Christians, and this is even truer of Muslims like you who support Sharia.
Brainwashed? It is you that is brainwashed, by the porn, immorality and mere atmosphere of what you call 'westernmism'
Sharia Law is the best of government hands down.
I love it when Muslims talk about porn. Are you aware that Muslims in Muslim countries are absolutely obsessed with porn? Just do a quick Google Trends search for vile things like "donkey sex", "child sex", etc. etc. etc. etc. and you will see - every single time, the ten countries (at least) where the most searches come from are Islamic countries. I dare you to find out for yourself the truth about your coreligionists.

Now why would that be? Obviously, it's because of the Islam-induced repression in Muslim countries. Every time a Muslim talks about immorality and sex in the West, I just have to laugh at the incredible ignorance and hypocrisy required to make such a claim.

My bet is that you'll just forget about this and move on to your next irrelevant comment. Muslims love to run away when confronted to their own lies. They are trained to have such egos that they can never admit it when they are wrong.

"Immorality". Coming from someone who supports institutionalized oppression of women, gays, apostates, non-Muslims and more. Incredible.
Murad wrote:
Sharia law is the certain path to institutionalized oppression and state-sponsered thuggery.
Oppression? Yes, oppression against sin and immorality, thuggery? opinions once again...
Oppression against the people, thuggery and extortion against the same. Do you even know what oppression means? Muslim doublethink is incredible. You people just manage to define any barbarity as perfect morality if it's in line with what your dear pirate did.
Murad wrote:
They would think you are a "false Muslim" for supporting all sorts of oppression and atrocities.
Oh yeh, your post is all the same, opinions opinions opinions....
Its actually funny that you are claiming to speak for American Muslims :D
Please, please do us all a favor and find a way to be heard in public. Tell the American Muslims all about *your true Islam* and see how they respond. Better yet, why not tell everyone of the [s]filth[/s] great values of Islam?
Murad wrote:
You also think that such a man could qualify as a prophet for a God despite the obvious fact that his marrying an extremely young girl has spawned endless child abuse in the Islamic world that continues to this day.
Show me verifable evidence that aisha was subjected to child abuse.
She was 6 when she was married to a man in his fifties. Do you think that 6 year old children can give informed consent to marriage and all that it implies? If so, you are dangerously ignorant, and I suggest you pick up any book on child biology and psychology.

My statement still stands: it certainly looks as if Allah was more interested in satisfying Muhammad's lust than ensuring the safety of innumerable Muslim little girls who were forced to marry lecherous dirty old men. Just try to make it sound like your all-powerful Allah *had* to marry his prophet to a child, just for fun.

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micatala
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Post #10

Post by micatala »

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Woland wrote:Hello Murad,
Murad wrote: Opinions...... who says you have the authority to judge?
We MUSLIMS judge on extremism, your judgement is irrelivant.
Muslims like you are the fanatics that enable the persecution of Muslims and non-Muslims alike worldwide at the hands of the Islamic clergy which justifies its sordid deeds straight out of the Quran and Sahih Hadith, and there are many.

They are not "misinterpreters" or "fake Muslims". All Muslims think themselves "the only true Muslims", which would be funny if it didn't cause so much violence. The Quran and Hadith are garbage books that can easily be used to justify any atrocity, the same as you do for stoning, oppression, etc.
Murad wrote:
That's because I don't live in an Islamic Republic.
Exactly, so whats your problem.
What a short-sighted, selfish, hypocritical person you are.


. . . .

"But you don't live there so what's your problem". Let me guess, they are your brothers and sisters in religion. People like you don't have any link with humans in general, only with the other members of the sub-cult of Islam you adhere to.

What an intellectual child. Refuting Muslims is always a chore, and a useless one at that: the likes of you are so full of themselves that they will never admit just how childish and ridiculous their responses are - not even to themselves. Islam massacres the human brain's ability to think critically from childhood.


While I can understand your feelings, you are making personal attacks in this post which is against the rules. Countering a position you feel is extreme is not a license for incivility.
" . . . the line separating good and evil passes, not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart . . . ." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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