What do muslims believe in??????

Definition of terms and explanation of concepts

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Murad
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What do muslims believe in??????

Post #1

Post by Murad »

Hello All.

Ive noticed that nobody on this website really knows what Islam is?
And some ignorant people i've met on this website make assumptions about Islam without knowledge.

Well let me brief over islam to eliminate some "Assumptions" :)

A follower of Islam is called a muslim.

Now what exactly does a muslim follow:

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Like Jews, Muslims believe in 1 God, he is the sustainer, the all powerful, the all mercyful and the all just. Also like Jews, Muslims believe that the trinity cannot exist and it is pure blasphemy to God. But unlike Jews, muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet and a messenger, BUT the muslim account of Jesus is very different AND very similar at the same time. (How exactly click the link)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

The Beliefs of Islam
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1.Who and what is God(Allah) in Islam?
No vision can grasp him, but his grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things. Quran
There is only one true God and his name is Allah. Allah is all knowing, all-powerful and sovereign judge. Yet Allah is not a personal God, for he is so far above man in every way that he is not personally knowable. The emphasis of the God of Islam is on judgment and power, not grace and mercy. To the Muslim mind, calling God father means God connotes sexual relationship.
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2. Creations of Allah

Angels in Islam serve Allah’s will such as Gabriel delivering the Qoran to Mohammed. Angels do not perform any bodily functions (sexual, eating., etc) as they are created of light. Angels serve different purposes; each person has two recording angels who record his/her good or bad deeds

Jinn: Are spiritual beings created out of fire….who are ranked between angels and men and can be either good or bad. Satan was a Jinn and not a fallen angel according to Islam.

Satan: A Jinn who refused to fall prostrate before Adam after he was created. He is the leader of evil ones in the world
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3. Scripture

There are four inspired books in Islam: Quran, Torah, Ingil and Zabur. The Torah, Ingil and Zabur: “Books of Moses, The Gospel of Jesus, and Psalms of David� These are books mentioned in the Quran as God’s Word but most Muslims feel the current books are corrupt. For this reason Allah gave Mohammed the “Quran�.
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4. Prophets

In Islam God has spoken through numerous prophets down through the centuries, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammmad, he is the seal of the prophets (Being the last one)
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5. Last Days
The last days will be a time of Ressurrection and Judgment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_vi ... t_Judgment
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JESUS(ISA) in Islam:



According to Islamic texts, Jesus was divinely chosen to preach the message of monotheism and submission to the will of God to the Children of Israel. Muslims believe that God revealed to Jesus a new scripture, the Injīl (gospel), while also declaring the truth of the previous revelations – the Tawrat (Torah) and the Zabur (Psalms)
"And behold! God will say: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).


Muhammad in Islam:

Muhammad(Peace be upon him) in Islam is the "Seal of the prophethood"
Meaning after him, there shall be no other prophets(Although Jesus will return to earth)


He is only a man, a servant of God, powerless without god.
Praise be to god, the only deity worth worshiping.

Quotes from Muhammad:
"I am a Prophet of Allah but I do not know what will be my end."
"O Allah! I am but a man. If I hurt any one in any manner, then forgive me and do not punish me."
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To sum it up quickly.
Muslims believe in 1 god and that he is the only deity worthy of worship.
Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Abraham etc... are Prophets and Servents of God.



Peace to all

Believers, Jews, Sabaeans and Christians -
whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -
shall have nothing to fear or regret.
-- Sura 5:69


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Murad
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Post #11

Post by Murad »

Woland this convo is going no where, ok you are right im a barbarian. Ok cool, end of discussion.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

(Quran 29:2-3)

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Why Jesus is NOT God
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Woland
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Post #12

Post by Woland »

Murad wrote:Woland this convo is going no where, ok you are right im a barbarian. Ok cool, end of discussion.
No worries.
I'm used to Muslims ending conversations as they run out of excuses for the sordid deeds they support. I hope you at least used Google Trends to increase your understanding of the perversity of your coreligionists due to the sexual repression inherent to your cult, and will refrain from using porn use as criticism of the West. I'm just kidding - I'm reasonably certain you will just keep pointing to your perceived immorality of the West to justify your religion's self-evident moral inadequacies.

Let me wrap up.

Because of your "true Islam", and as a "true Muslim":

1. You support state oppression of women (unequal in front of the law, circumstances exist where marital violence is justified)
2. You support state oppression of homosexuals (death penalty).
3. You support state oppression of apostates (death penalty and persecution).
4. You support state oppression of non-Muslims (unequal rights to worship, no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought, and you also probably support the Jizyah and the other Islamic means of making every non-Muslim a second-class citizen).
5. You support state-sponsored cruel torture and barbaric punishment (stoning, amputation of limbs, flogging).
6. You support state oppression of Muslims (all of the above).

Did I miss anything? Each of these is a clear violation of human rights.

Ah yes, I missed something: I'm sure that you also support one-way polygamy (only men allowed many wives), and one-way inter-faith marriage (Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women, but not the other way around). Do you deny these?

So much for misconceptions about Islam and Muslims.

Actually, you were correct about that, most Westerners are truly ignorant of what Islam is, and what it does to Muslims.

There are no human rights in Islam, only more and more violence and ignorance. The present reality of the Muslim world speaks for itself.

The world is lucky that most people who call themselves Muslims are also ignorant about Islam.

If you want to do us all a big favor, please, PLEASE go preach your Islam to people in the West. Don't preach the watered-down version that they hear about on TV - tell them all about the institutionalized oppression inherent to your cult, as they know nothing about it.

Please.

Murad
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Post #13

Post by Murad »

I did not run out of excuses. :-s
Your posts are opinions and the only way they could be debated is by me posting my opinions.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.

(Quran 29:2-3)

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Why Jesus is NOT God
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Post #14

Post by Grim_railer »

tehy r fake so they're not real people and they don't believe in it

Woland
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Post #15

Post by Woland »

Murad wrote:I did not run out of excuses. :-s
Your posts are opinions and the only way they could be debated is by me posting my opinions.
No.

I said that Islam supports oppression, and I justified this statement with clear-cut, undeniable examples of oppression and violations of human rights in Islam - all of which have your support, as a "true Muslim". Do you deny this?

Do you deny that any of the numbered examples above are clear, undeniable violations of human rights?

The only thing YOU can do is state your irrelevant opinion that oppression isn't oppression.

Please feel free to do so.

You still support oppression of a large number of decent people, in the name of your hateful religion.

Woland

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Post #16

Post by Woland »

Hello Murad,

A few sincere questions for you, because even though I have a lot of experience conversing with Muslims, I don't think I will ever be able to understand how they morally justify many elements of Islam to themselves. I know all the excuses Muslims can give for all of the topics I brought up in this conversation, but I have a really hard time believing you really actually think that, for example, "it was ok back then, but not today" or "Islam says to treat slaves nicely" justifies the fact that your omnipotent deity explicitly allowed his perfect example prophet to treat other human beings as possessions.

Aren't you ashamed of the history of slavery in Islam? Why do you think that you consider it to be immoral in modern times? What made it alright for your prophet, on orders from a supposedly omnipotent entity, to enslave countless people?

Aren't you ashamed of your old prophet marrying a little girl who couldn't give informed consent when he of all people (supposing he had a connection to the divine, which he clearly did not) should have known better? Do you have any understanding of child psychology and biology? Do you have any idea how many children have been abused by old Muslim men who justified their lust for little girls with your prophet's marriage to Aisha?

Aren't you ashamed that Islam and Sharia demonstrably and inevitably cause oppression, suffering, poverty and ignorance everywhere they are practiced, and to the exact extent to which they are taken seriously?

Aren't you ashamed that Islam is such a nonsensical ideology that it absolutely must violently oppress anyone who criticizes it, and that it must murder anyone who wakes up and leaves the cult? Don't these threats of violence tell you anything about the validity of your beliefs?

Aren't you ashamed that your religion explicitly suppresses freedom of thought, of religion and of speech? Do you deny that it does? Is this my "opinion"? Obviously, it isn't.

Aren't you ashamed that women aren't considered to be equal to men in every way in your religion?

Aren't you ashamed that you support violent oppression of homosexuals when their behavior is none of your concern and doesn't affect you in the slightest?

Aren't you ashamed that you support oppression of non-Muslims in Muslim countries, giving them lesser rights than Muslims enjoy and forcing them to pay a special humiliating tax?

Aren't you ashamed that all the oppression in Islam has been rejected long ago by the modern civilized world because it obviously and inevitably leads to suffering and tyranny? Do you not care that Muslims and Islamic countries are stuck at the morality level of 7th century Arabia while everyone else has moved on and considers everyone to be equal regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.?

...

Finally, aren't you ashamed that you are forced by your religious beliefs to support all sorts of unspeakable atrocities?

Do you do it because you are scared of Allah or Hell, or do you really, genuinely think that all the unnecessary violence and iniquity in Islam will make a better world?

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Post #17

Post by good »

Woland wrote:Hello Murad,

I have a few questions for you.

1. Do you believe that, according to Islam, stoning anyone is wrong under any circumstances?

2. Do you believe that, according to Islam, beating your wife is always wrong, no matter the circumstances?

3. Do you believe that, according to Islam, whipping anyone is wrong?

4. Do you believe that, according to Islam, killing apostates for leaving Islam is always wrong?

5. Do you believe that, according to Islam, genocide is always wrong? (i.e. that Muhammad did not genocide everyone in the Banu Quraiza who had pubic hair)

6. Do you believe that, according to Islam, slavery is always wrong?

7. Do you believe that, according to Islam, everyone should have equal worshipping and proselytizing rights? This includes Christians and Hindus in Muslim countries having the same exact rights as Muslims in secular countries.

8. Do you believe that, according to Islam, women and men are considered to be equal in front of the law? This means that a woman's testimonial is always equal to that of a man.

Do you acknowledge that many mainstream denominations of Islam (and a significant proportion of Muslims worldwide) fail to agree with all or most of the above questions?

Woland

Who told you this ?????????


Islam prohibits beatings and the skin of the innocent
Each paragraph with the reasons and bug you remember either randomly for no reason, this trick

An example of a person held him in prison only and will not object ???????


Why because it is a criminal

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Such and such person shall be punishable only silent ????????

Why is punishable ?????????
Because he committed crimes

This law applies to all countries of the world non-Muslim

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Post #18

Post by good »

Woland wrote:
Murad wrote:Woland this convo is going no where, ok you are right im a barbarian. Ok cool, end of discussion.
No worries.
I'm used to Muslims ending conversations as they run out of excuses for the sordid deeds they support. I hope you at least used Google Trends to increase your understanding of the perversity of your coreligionists due to the sexual repression inherent to your cult, and will refrain from using porn use as criticism of the West. I'm just kidding - I'm reasonably certain you will just keep pointing to your perceived immorality of the West to justify your religion's self-evident moral inadequacies.

Let me wrap up.

Because of your "true Islam", and as a "true Muslim":

1. You support state oppression of women (unequal in front of the law, circumstances exist where marital violence is justified)
2. You support state oppression of homosexuals (death penalty).
3. You support state oppression of apostates (death penalty and persecution).
4. You support state oppression of non-Muslims (unequal rights to worship, no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought, and you also probably support the Jizyah and the other Islamic means of making every non-Muslim a second-class citizen).
5. You support state-sponsored cruel torture and barbaric punishment (stoning, amputation of limbs, flogging).
6. You support state oppression of Muslims (all of the above).

Did I miss anything? Each of these is a clear violation of human rights.

Ah yes, I missed something: I'm sure that you also support one-way polygamy (only men allowed many wives), and one-way inter-faith marriage (Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women, but not the other way around). Do you deny these?

So much for misconceptions about Islam and Muslims.

Actually, you were correct about that, most Westerners are truly ignorant of what Islam is, and what it does to Muslims.

There are no human rights in Islam, only more and more violence and ignorance. The present reality of the Muslim world speaks for itself.

The world is lucky that most people who call themselves Muslims are also ignorant about Islam.

If you want to do us all a big favor, please, PLEASE go preach your Islam to people in the West. Don't preach the watered-down version that they hear about on TV - tell them all about the institutionalized oppression inherent to your cult, as they know nothing about it.

Please.

Not all true Maglt
Dinah humans know more than that is not in religion
How can you say about Islam this and you do not know the details and knows what it and you are not Muslim and it is natural you are not interested

This hatred against Islam and distort its image, but not this brutal reminder


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I repeat this is not the wisdom to remember random address without details and the reasons for the rule of
And Islam is not doing this with the innocent
Did not know you are a non-Muslim

Read the Sunnah and verses of the Koran to know that Islam enjoins peace
Example by virtue of thinking should not prosecute the criminals

And by virtue of thinking the world and Islam, that the trial of the killers is a peace to deter them from their crimes against innocent people

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Post #19

Post by good »

Example
The spread of AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases in non-Muslim communities and the proliferation of illegitimate children does not have a father nor mother, because of illegal sexual relations
This is one of the reasons that Islam has forbidden sex illegal



And children suffer from legitimate mental disorder and the persecution and injustice they have been skewed because he does not have a family

That is why Islam does not want to rest in the occurrence of such damage because it is for mankind to this end and forbidden sex taboo




Islam has wisdom in all things, but many unaware of Wisdom

And the lack of reproduction due to sexual orientation illegal, leading to non-mating legitimate and indispensable

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Now, universities, non-Muslim supports the separation of male and female because of the problems and harassment and the spread of AIDS ....................

For that Islam supports this before them


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Bottom line is that Islam has a wisdom in its laws to the benefit of mankind and not to damage the

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Post #20

Post by Darias »

I am not a Muslim, but I feel the need to respond this point about slavery that Woland brought up.

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Woland wrote:
Murad wrote:
Woland wrote:Is there any verse in the Quran stating that slavery is prohibited?
Not that i know of.
Me neither! What a coincidence!

Could it be that you're making up the whole "slavery is wrong today" excuse because YOU happen to think that slavery is wrong when your own "great example prophet" had no problem enslaving scores of people?

I'm grateful for one thing: most modern Muslims (and even most fanatical Muslims) aren't as barbaric as their prophet was.
To put things into perspective...

You won't find a single verse in the Bible that prohibits or abolishes slavery.

At best, all the Bible says about it is to treat slaves well. At worst, it commands undying devotion and obedience of slaves. The following are New Testament examples:
Colossians 3:22 wrote:Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.
Colossians 4:1 wrote:Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
Titus 2:9-10 wrote:Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
Ephesians 6:5 wrote:Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
Ephesians 6:9 wrote:And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.
When the New Testament was written, slavery was common place; it would have been a liberal reform just to advocate good treatment of slaves.

These verses in part explain why slavery persisted for so long in the Bible Belt of the US. It was justified in the society because they believed it was the holy word of God. Elsewhere in the world, the Bible was also used to justify its abolition.

Obviously, it didn't matter what the Bible actually said - the society would do what it wanted by cherry-picking Holy verses in defense of their own cultural habits.



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Woland wrote:
Murad wrote:
Woland wrote:Is there any verse in the Quran stating that slavery will suddenly become unacceptable and unethical as time goes by?
No it does not, but it says to treat your slaves/servants with care, also slaves are not a necessity but if you have one(example prisoners from war) you have to treat well.
Theres no such thing as a 'Slave' in any muslim country at this time though.

Do you deny that several Muslim countries, unsurprisingly enough when you look at the man they worship, took much longer than the rest of the civilized world to abolish slavery?

Do you deny that pressures from the civilized world played a huge part in this?
Well, the Bible sounds very similar to the Qur'an according to what Murad said. However, one thing about Islam was the idea that it is virtuous to free slaves. Such ideas are absent from the Bible. One thing about Muhammad is a belief that he bought slaves from others in order to free them -- one of which he adopted as his own son.
Wikipedia: Muhammad wrote:Slaves
The Qur'an considers emancipation of a slave to be a highly meritorious deed, or as a condition of repentance for many sins. Therefore Muhammad was the owner of slaves, whom he bought usually to free,[181] including concubines (although this claim is disputed),[182] a wetnurse, and one slave he bought, freed and adopted as his son (Zayd).[183] However, Muhammad himself did not ban slavery.
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SOURCE
Slavery in Islam wrote: Many societies throughout history have practised slavery, and Muslim societies were no exception.

It's thought that as many people were enslaved in the Eastern slave trade as in the Atlantic slave trade.

It's ironic that when the Atlantic slave trade was abolished the Eastern trade expanded, suggesting that for some Africans the abolition of the Atlantic trade didn't lead to freedom, but merely changed their slave destination.

It's misleading to use phrases such as 'Islamic slavery' and 'Muslim slave trade', even though slavery existed in many Muslim cultures at various times, since the Atlantic slave trade is not called the Christian slave trade, even though most of those responsible for it were Christians.

Slavery before Islam

Slavery was common in pre-Islamic times and accepted by many ancient legal systems and it continued under Islam.

. . .

How Islam moderated slavery

Islam's approach to slavery added the idea that freedom was the natural state of affairs for human beings and in line with this it limited the opportunities to enslave people, commended the freeing of slaves and regulated the way slaves were treated:

• Islam greatly limited those who could be enslaved and under what circumstances (although these restrictions were often evaded)

• Islam treated slaves as human beings as well as property

• Islam banned the mistreatment of slaves - indeed the tradition repeatedly stresses the importance of treating slaves with kindness and compassion

• Islam allowed slaves to achieve their freedom and made freeing slaves a virtuous act

• Islam barred Muslims from enslaving other Muslims

But the essential nature of slavery remained the same under Islam, as elsewhere. It involved serious breaches of human rights and however well they were treated, the slaves still had restricted freedom; and, when the law was not obeyed, their lives could be very unpleasant.

The legality of slavery today

While Islamic law does allow slavery under certain conditions, it's almost inconceivable that those conditions could ever occur in today's world, and so slavery is effectively illegal in modern Islam. Muslim countries also use secular law to prohibit slavery.
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SOURCE

As for "civilized" society. Slavery continued in European held African colonies even after the abolishment of slavery. The U.S. took a while to abolish it as well.

One of the greatest champions of equality and the abolition of the slave trade, Thomas Jefferson, owned around 600 or so.

And this wasn't because the Bible said it was okay. {The man was hardly religious -- Perhaps a Deist at best; he even re-wrote the gospels to make a more rational Jesus (no miracles).}

He, hypocritically owned slaves whilst raving against the immorality of slavery - because society said it was okay.

He's one of the fathers of modern Democracy -- and he owned a lot of slaves.

By the way, slavery while illegal, is alive and well. I live near a city -- one of the biggest slave trade hubs on the east coast of the U.S. Slaves are used for sex and labor. Most of them are women and children. And there is demand for them here, just as much as there is in many parts of the world. It is sad -- it is wrong -- but it is not a Muslim Creation, nor is it monopolized by Islamic countries.



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Woland wrote:Aren't you ashamed of the history of slavery in Islam? Why do you think that you consider it to be immoral in modern times? What made it alright for your prophet, on orders from a supposedly omnipotent entity, to enslave countless people?
You're acting like Murad approves of slavery. He said he does not.

Societies were different back then, that's why slavery was so prevalent.

Muhammad owned slaves, but bought many just to free them. Thomas Jefferson didn't free many of his -- only occasionally -- and that was to keep the rest obedient. Jefferson had his slaves flogged if they attempted escape.

There is no verse in the Qur'an that commands enslavement of people. Muhammad owned slaves, but not because God told him to.



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As far as just this one issue is concerned, slavery is not unique to Islam - nor is it demanded of Islam - nor is it a tenant of the faith. And it is no longer legal in any Muslim country on earth - that I know of.

Islam is no more guilty of encouraging slavery than Christianity or other secular systems. So in this respect, just on this issue alone (not even counting the other claims Woland brought up) I think it is unfair to label the religion as "evil."

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