I have a question

Definition of terms and explanation of concepts

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Illyricum
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I have a question

Post #1

Post by Illyricum »

I was wondering if someone [who is an evolutionist] could [briefly but clearly as possible] explain to me the big bang theory. I mean, I know what it is and I've heard it before, but I'd appreciate if someone could explain it in detail, how the evolutions believe it came about, what exactly hit what to form what, that sort of thing. I would love to have the whole evolution theory explained to me but I don't think I have time for that right now so I'll just start with the most important part which is the how [the earth]all started.
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Corvus
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Post #2

Post by Corvus »

I'm not entirely sure this belongs here, but I suppose this doesn't really belong anywhere. You're looking to have something explained, which doesn't allow us to debate anything.

Let me clear a few things. The theory of the origins of the current state of the universe are not a part of evolution, and neither are the origins of life. These are separate theories. It just happens that, since knowledge cannot exist in a vacuum, science ends up drawing on other branches of science in an effort to explain the laws and origins of one another..

So, evolution explains the process of life, or how it operates.

Abiogenesis explains the origin of life, or how it began.

Big bang explains the origins of the current state of the universe.

These are different theories that all relate to each other.

Now, for the big bang. I tried explaining in simple terms what happened during the Big Bang and kept failing. It gets very technical and I would often have to delete what I typed because it didn't adaquetely convey the process. The best thing to do is look at this chart:

http://ssscott.tripod.com/bang.jpg

Note that I frequently have written that the Big Bang explains the origin of the current state of our universe. What I mean by that is, the Big Bang explains how the plants got where they are today. What preceded the big bang is unknown but frequently conjectured. Some hypotheses are quite fascinating, but I will not go into them here.

First let me explain how the Big Bang theory was discovered. It was first proposed after it was observed that galaxies are moving away from us at an incredible rate, pointing to an expanding universe. If it expanded, then at one point in time, it was more compact. This in turn led to the prediction that there would be residual radiation from the big bang in every direction which was discovered in the 1960s in an experiment to see if microwaves could be detected in space.

Note that the big bang is regarded as a scientific theory, as evolution is regarded as a scientific theory. What this means is that they have withstood the test of time and there currently exists nothing to refute them. This is not to say they can't be refuted, simply that they have not yet. Most of what we take for granted is theorised. Science often uses indirect means to make observations. For example, no one has witnessed the earth orbiting the sun, and despite the fact observation seems to contradicts this, we know it is true.

Let me say, though, that I am no scientist, and I don't know everything. I had to look up the details on the big bang, and some of it really is perplexing because it combines different branches of science.
Last edited by Corvus on Wed May 26, 2004 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Quarkhead
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Post #3

Post by Quarkhead »

Corvus wrote:What I mean by that is, the Big Bang explains how the plants got where they are today.
Yeah, but what about the animals? ;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

good overview, fairly detailed

quick and easy summary

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Post #4

Post by otseng »

I'll add that the Big Bang theory is currently the most commonly accepted theory on the origin of the universe among scientists. There are no alternate theories that have as much acceptance as the Big Bang theory.

I'll also add that I believe in the Big Bang theory. However, I do not believe it contradicts with a literal reading of Genesis. See Light, stars, and creationism.

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Post #5

Post by canadianhorsefan »

The Big Bang theory does have the support of the Qur'an. Muslims are not complete creationists or complete evolutionists. We accept the evolution exists, but that Allah had something to do with the creation of the universe. In other words, the universe didn't all start by chance and accident. :confused2:

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Post #6

Post by cattious »

From what I understand, the Big Bang happened; for a few seconds (or milliseconds) the entire universe was a tiny ball of plasma (electrons seperated from protons, etc., all flowing and really really energetic) and it kept expanding. A while later, it got big and cool enough for the plasma to condense and form atoms. The universe kept getting bigger and cooler and bits of it condensed into suns, planets, and so on. Then stuff happened, the Earth formed, it might've crashed into another planet when it was all molten rock forming the moon, it cooled, and somehow single-celled lifeforms developed. blahblahblah, evolution happened, and yada yada yada.
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Post #7

Post by Illyricum »

cattious wrote:From what I understand, the Big Bang happened; for a few seconds (or milliseconds) the entire universe was a tiny ball of plasma (electrons seperated from protons, etc., all flowing and really really energetic) and it kept expanding. A while later, it got big and cool enough for the plasma to condense and form atoms. The universe kept getting bigger and cooler and bits of it condensed into suns, planets, and so on. Then stuff happened, the Earth formed, it might've crashed into another planet when it was all molten rock forming the moon, it cooled, and somehow single-celled lifeforms developed. blahblahblah, evolution happened, and yada yada yada.
*Chuckle* :lol: Hmm, that helps a little, I guess. :D
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Re: I have a question

Post #8

Post by Yahweh »

Illyricum wrote:I was wondering if someone [who is an evolutionist] could [briefly but clearly as possible] explain to me the big bang theory. I mean, I know what it is and I've heard it before, but I'd appreciate if someone could explain it in detail, how the evolutions believe it came about, what exactly hit what to form what, that sort of thing. I would love to have the whole evolution theory explained to me but I don't think I have time for that right now so I'll just start with the most important part which is the how [the earth]all started.
A Quick and Easy Nutshell Guide to The Big Bang and the Origins of Life:

Formation of the Universe:

Here's the short answer (much hand-waving follows):

First, the Planck length. Max Planck discovered that there was a number (a very very very small number) which was effectively the smallest thing you could have. Expressed as distance, the Planck length is the smallest distance you can measure, like the limit of resolution of your ruler. Expressed as energy, it's the smallest bit of energy (the so-called quantum). Expressed as time, it is the smallest bit of time you can measure. (Remember that time and distance are functions of each other, so the smallest distance and the smallest time are related).

Then Stephen Hawking discovered that underneath this limit, all sorts of hanky panky was going on. For instance, sometimes particles (like say an electron) will just appear out of nothing, for no reason at all. So the old adage that something cannot come from nothing is false: it happens a gazillion times a second.

Of course, you are wondering, why don't we notice this? Well, its because the universe is as bad as a bank: you can't take money out without putting money in. So when that electron just pops into being, an anti-electron is also created. And here's the kicker: the two of them wander around a bit, and then collide. Well you know what happens when a particle and an anti-particle collide: they both go woosh! And the energy they create from their explosion is exactly the same amount of energy it took to create them... so everything balances out!

But wait, you say. Wouldn't we notice all this wooshing? The answer is, all of this takes place under the Planck limit. So no, we don't notice it. You know that movies are really just still frames displayed really quickly, right? And because your eyes can't adjust faster than 30 times a second or so, you can't tell. You don't see the stillness, just the motion. The Planck limit is like that: you can't see well enough to see the individual actions, just the net result.

So... imagine the universe when there was no matter in it. No distance, either (and hence no time but that's a different issue). Nothing at all. So along comes some innocent particle, pops into being just like they always do, but wait: there is no distance. Well you know what happens when you stuff 20 lbls of potatos into a 5lb bag, right. No distance means that the first particle had infinite density. Infinite density means infinte mass, which means infinite energy. And stuffing infinite energy into a tiny point means kaboom!

And there's your Big Bang. Out of nothing. Of course, now that we have distance, we don't have infinite energy anymore. So all those little guys popping in and out don't matter so much. But they still serve to evaporate black holes, so we're grateful they're around.


As to the formation of life:

Living things as we know them are made of organic materials. In many instances, the organic materials are organized as chains of amino acids to form proteins. Proteins are "the building blocks of life," and amino acids are "the building blocks of proteins."

In a series of famous experiments by Miller and Urey (and others), organic materials (water, ammonia, hydrogen and methane) were put into a container and were subjected to electrical arcs (to simulate lightning). In a very short time (less than a week), amino acids and other organic compounds appeared in the container. There was no human creator, no designer... these things just formed under ordinary conditions.

If the same forces are at work for billions of years, the formation of life becomes probable. Not just possible, but highly probable.
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Illyricum
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Post #9

Post by Illyricum »

Thank you, that helps.
So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.

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Nameless

bang

Post #10

Post by Nameless »

I think, that if you could hear up close enough, a 'big bang' might be the sound of the 'birth' of a thought...

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