Defining atheism and agnosticism

[otseng]

What are the definitions of atheism and agnosticism?

[Overcomer]

However, Christianity, for example, with its assertions about the nature of history and insistence that god is benign and present in daily life... well, that's easily falsifiable.

Easily falsifiable to you, perhaps, for whatever reason. But to those of us who are in a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ by the infilling of the Holy Spirit, knowing the three-personed Godhead personally and intimately, there's nothing you can offer to prove that God isn't real. There's nothing false about who God is and what he is like to those of us who know him. YOu would have as much luck convincing me that my earthly father doesn't exist as you would trying to convince me that my heavenly father doesn't.

Is God benign? The Bible doesn't use that word to describe him and neither would I. God isn't benign to his enemies.

Is he present in daily life? He is in mine. Just because you don't think he is in yours (he is, as is the devil, but you fail to recognize or acknowledge it), that doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.

There's no way that you can prove that God isn't present in my daily life. I, on the other hand, have all kinds of evidence for his involvement in my life which I would be happy to relate if you are interested. If this isn't the appropriate thread in which to do that, then please direct me to the correct one and I will share my testimony there.

[Dilettante]

I understand atheism as a lack of belief in God. This could mean you claim there is no God, or you just don't know, or don't care.

Agnosticism is a lack of knowledge of God. That does not necessarily mean you rule out God's existence. I personally like to believe that a Supreme Being exists, and that it is not vindictive or plays favorites. Agnostics come in two flavors mainly, agnostic theists and agnostic atheists, depending whether you tend to one extreme or the other. It is my personal opinion that the vast majority of people belong to the agnostic theist group (at least if they stopped and thought about it long enough). I have met very few people who claim to know God for sure, and also very few who claim to know for sure that there is no God.

[spetey]

I think an emerging consensus, both on this thread and elsewhere, is this:

• atheism: belief that God does not exist
  
  agnosticism: lack of committed belief with respect to God's existence (perhaps due to the view that such a belief cannot be justified enough to make knowledge)

spetey

[Nyril]

a = no
theo = god
ism = belief

a = no
gnosis = knowledge

Actually my friend, a = without.

Such as asymmetrical.

So it should be,

without belief
without knowledge

Respectively.

[Dilettante]

However, Christianity, for example, with its assertions about the nature of history and insistence that god is benign and present in daily life... well, that's easily falsifiable.

Easily falsifiable to you, perhaps, for whatever reason. But to those of us who are in a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ by the infilling of the Holy Spirit, knowing the three-personed Godhead personally and intimately, there's nothing you can offer to prove that God isn't real. There's nothing false about who God is and what he is like to those of us who know him. YOu would have as much luck convincing me that my earthly father doesn't exist as you would trying to convince me that my heavenly father doesn't.

Is God benign? The Bible doesn't use that word to describe him and neither would I. God isn't benign to his enemies.

Is he present in daily life? He is in mine. Just because you don't think he is in yours (he is, as is the devil, but you fail to recognize or acknowledge it), that doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.

There's no way that you can prove that God isn't present in my daily life. I, on the other hand, have all kinds of evidence for his involvement in my life which I would be happy to relate if you are interested. If this isn't the appropriate thread in which to do that, then please direct me to the correct one and I will share my testimony there.

This exchange is a perfect example of how non-agnostic atheists and non-agnostic theists talk past each other. Intimate, non-objective knowledge cannot be convincing to anyone but the person having the mystical experience. And once he or she has had that mystical experience, debates and argumentation lose value to that person.

[McCulloch]

I try to use words to clarify meaning. If I call myself an agnostic, however accurate it might be in a technical sense, I might convey the unintended meaning to someone that I believe that their concept of a christian anthromorphic loving personal suffering trinitarian jealous vengeful sacrificial God is in my mind has more than an infinitesimal possibility of existing. So within the definition of what most people that I know accept as god, I am an atheist.

Some people, however, have a very different concept of what the word god means. It would be impossible for me to say that I am an atheist without any specific meaning attached to the word 'god'. Harvey has in another thread stated that God is the laws of physics. Within that definition, I am a theist. I believe in the laws of physics.

On the other hand, if you define a pantheistic type of god then you may call me an agnostic. I don't believe that you can prove the existence of such a god and I know that I cannot disprove it.

But the existence or non-existence of a loosely defined pantheistic god has very little or no relevance to debating christianity, since christians seem to reject the pantheist definition of god. Furthermore, a minimalist pantheist god does not directly inspire holy books, make himself into a human sacrifice, promise eternal bliss, demand my belief or affect my behaviour in any way, so its existence is not worth much time or effort debating.

Since the Define "God" thread has not come to any satisfactory conclusion, I guess we cannot properly define what it means to not believe in god. Most of the definitions posed there were for the god of the major monotheist religions. But there was at least one for the deist god and one pantheist.

Might I suggest that for the purposes of this forum, called Debating Christianity, that the word god without any adjectives should always be used to mean the christian concept of god. And if any other definition is being referenced that we use an adjective, for example "deist god", "pantheist god", "Hindu god" etc.