Defining atheism and agnosticism
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Re: Defining atheism and agnosticism
Post #2This is a serious topic - I don't feel that this folder is the appropriate place for it.otseng wrote:What are the definitions of atheism and agnosticism?
How would you feel if "What are the definitions of Christianity" was posted here for discussion?
I will boycot this until it is moved to a more suitable location.
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otseng
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Post #3
I didn't place it in Random Ramblings to trivialize this topic. But, there was really nowhere else to put it. So, I have created a new subforum for all posts that deal with definitions.
Post #4
Since this is a discussion topic, and not a debate, I'll give my own personal account of this. And I think that most definitions of these terms are personal. We can all go to the dictionary and come up with answers, but we also have the way we act in terms of how we understand the definitions.
I am an agnostic. To me, this means that asking the question of whether or not God exists is, itself, irrational. I do not have an answer, just as I do not have an answer whether or not a family of elves lives inside the stones in my front yard. It is my contention, that, as an agnostic, I do not need an answer. If you ask if I believe in God, I will say No. If you ask if I think God exists, I will say I don't know.
A) If God exists, H/he has not shown any interest in intervening in our lives in any purposeful way or in a way that can be proven as supernatural, and so it does not matter if H/he exists or not.
B) If God does not exist, well, then, whoop-dee-do.
I believe that all (All) religions of the world are built on lies, misconceptions of behavior, misinterpretations of natural phenomenae, and bureaucratic a**-covering. All spirituality is a myth. The only thing that exists is the material world, and any theories based on anything else are built on specious assumptions. Agnosticism doesn't necessarily say all that. But my own view of it does. That said, there is no proof that a spiritual realm exists, and no proof that it does not exist. Therefore the question is meaningless. Therefore, I do not need to worry about it.
I don't think it is possible to define these terms in a universal way if only because there is no book, no dogma, no organization, and no need for adherence to one philosophy or another. Misinterpretation is not an option, nor is orthodoxy.
Don't get me wrong. Agnosticism does not make me feel all warm inside or give me the sense of peace that many Christians claim to have. My sense of peace is gained not through the knowledge that I am right and others are wrong, or that there is this "specialness" that I have that comes from being a part of some grand design, but through my sense that I do not need to worry about such things. The system I am a part of is the universe and its physical laws. That is enough to evoke the wonder of something larger than myself.
Being an agnostic does not fill my daily life in the sense that I ask myself "What Would David Hume Do?", because I don't ask myself such questions (except in an academic sense). I don't define myself in terms of agnosticism, it is merely one of my characteristics. Some might call it a character flaw or a personality trait.
I am an agnostic. To me, this means that asking the question of whether or not God exists is, itself, irrational. I do not have an answer, just as I do not have an answer whether or not a family of elves lives inside the stones in my front yard. It is my contention, that, as an agnostic, I do not need an answer. If you ask if I believe in God, I will say No. If you ask if I think God exists, I will say I don't know.
A) If God exists, H/he has not shown any interest in intervening in our lives in any purposeful way or in a way that can be proven as supernatural, and so it does not matter if H/he exists or not.
B) If God does not exist, well, then, whoop-dee-do.
I believe that all (All) religions of the world are built on lies, misconceptions of behavior, misinterpretations of natural phenomenae, and bureaucratic a**-covering. All spirituality is a myth. The only thing that exists is the material world, and any theories based on anything else are built on specious assumptions. Agnosticism doesn't necessarily say all that. But my own view of it does. That said, there is no proof that a spiritual realm exists, and no proof that it does not exist. Therefore the question is meaningless. Therefore, I do not need to worry about it.
I don't think it is possible to define these terms in a universal way if only because there is no book, no dogma, no organization, and no need for adherence to one philosophy or another. Misinterpretation is not an option, nor is orthodoxy.
Don't get me wrong. Agnosticism does not make me feel all warm inside or give me the sense of peace that many Christians claim to have. My sense of peace is gained not through the knowledge that I am right and others are wrong, or that there is this "specialness" that I have that comes from being a part of some grand design, but through my sense that I do not need to worry about such things. The system I am a part of is the universe and its physical laws. That is enough to evoke the wonder of something larger than myself.
Being an agnostic does not fill my daily life in the sense that I ask myself "What Would David Hume Do?", because I don't ask myself such questions (except in an academic sense). I don't define myself in terms of agnosticism, it is merely one of my characteristics. Some might call it a character flaw or a personality trait.
Re: Defining atheism and agnosticism
Post #5That's easyotseng wrote:What are the definitions of atheism and agnosticism?
atheism = no god belief (eos)
agnosticism = no knowledge of god.
Of course within these groups there will be sub-sets.
Speaking from my own POV....
When it comes to the christian version of god I 'know' this entity does not exist in the same way a christian will 'know' Zeus ot Thor or whatever does not exist. Ergo I am not only an atheist (no belief), I am a gnostic atheist.
As far as there being no 'god' whatsoever - I am agnostic. For example, if god was defined as "the universe", with no interaction with man other than how we interact with "the universe" - I would be a theist.
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TransverseWave
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Post #6
I've heard at least three different sets of definitions.
The definitions likely to be used by people who don't have much contact with philosophically oriented atheists: an atheist believes there's no deity, and an agnostic doesn't know.
Set 2: An atheist lacks belief in deity; anyone who doesn't answer 'yes' to the question 'Do you believe in God?' is an atheist. An agnostic believes that whether deity exists is unknowable. Agnostics can be atheists, theists, or deists, thus.
Set 3:
A weak atheist has no positive belief that deity exists.
A strong atheist believes that there is no deity.
A weak agnostic doesn't know whether deity exists.
A strong agnostic believes that it cannot be known whether deity exists.
Again, agnosticism can combine with other positions.
In conversation with people who don't follow this stuff, I describe myself as an agnostic, so as not to mislead them into thinking that I'm certain there's no God. Most precisely, I'm a weak agnostic and a weak atheist.
The definitions likely to be used by people who don't have much contact with philosophically oriented atheists: an atheist believes there's no deity, and an agnostic doesn't know.
Set 2: An atheist lacks belief in deity; anyone who doesn't answer 'yes' to the question 'Do you believe in God?' is an atheist. An agnostic believes that whether deity exists is unknowable. Agnostics can be atheists, theists, or deists, thus.
Set 3:
A weak atheist has no positive belief that deity exists.
A strong atheist believes that there is no deity.
A weak agnostic doesn't know whether deity exists.
A strong agnostic believes that it cannot be known whether deity exists.
Again, agnosticism can combine with other positions.
In conversation with people who don't follow this stuff, I describe myself as an agnostic, so as not to mislead them into thinking that I'm certain there's no God. Most precisely, I'm a weak agnostic and a weak atheist.
Post #7
it can get even more confusing if you take particular gods.TransverseWave wrote:...I describe myself as an agnostic, so as not to mislead them into thinking that I'm certain there's no God. Most precisely, I'm a weak agnostic and a weak atheist.
For example I am a strong atheist when it comes to the magic/mythological gods e.g gods of the Greeks, Romans etc and the god of Abraham (Judeo-Chrisitan-Islamic).
As far as making a positive statement such as "There is no god" I am agnostic.
b
a-theism
Post #8I like TWs set 3 above. It's the most useful breakout. However, I would add one more to the thread:TransverseWave wrote:Set 3:
A weak atheist has no positive belief that deity exists.
A strong atheist believes that there is no deity.
A weak agnostic doesn't know whether deity exists.
A strong agnostic believes that it cannot be known whether deity exists.
Again, agnosticism can combine with other positions.
A literal definition of atheism could be not believing that there is a god (more on the agnostic side), believing that there is no god (standard atheism), and believing that religion, worship, and/or general belief in a higher power is a bad thing (anti-theism).
Basically strong, weak, and anti-...
As for me, I say atheism because I wouldn't want people to think I'm straddling the fence or something.
It's really about verifiability and falsifiability. The cosmic muffin of modern liberal christianity - god works in mysterious ways, and the possibility of a devil causing me to think different things make it absurd to try to say with 100% certainty that there is no god.
However, Christianity, for example, with its assertions about the nature of history and insistence that god is benign and present in daily life... well, that's easily falsifiable. The more attributes god has, the easier strong atheism is to hold. Regardless of who i'm talking to though, atheism is always the best position to start with... details may come later.
Re: Defining atheism and agnosticism
Post #10a = nootseng wrote:What are the definitions of atheism and agnosticism?
theo = god
ism = belief
a = no
gnosis = knowledge
