What is the Holy Spirit?

Definition of terms and explanation of concepts

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Corvus
Guru
Posts: 1140
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:59 pm
Location: Australia

What is the Holy Spirit?

Post #1

Post by Corvus »

I would like to know what the Holy Spirit is and what is its function. It's fairly clear what Jesus does and what purpose he fulfills, yet the Holy Spirit is something I only know of as a vague thing that descends on people, without a personality or nature to speak of.
<i>'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'</i>
-John Keats, Ode on a Grecian Urn.

User avatar
Vladd44
Sage
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Climbing out of your Moms bedroom window.
Contact:

Post #11

Post by Vladd44 »

quite frankly, the only way i can reconcile what you said initially, with what you typed in response is to consider modalism. Which i safely assume you do not adhere too.

SO my question remains, there seems to be a variance in "penalty" for acting against jesus or the HS/HG. I fail to see how thats possible in your godhead if I assume you are correct in saying.......
Third, all the characteristics of the Godhead are attributed to each, again inseparable. You sin against or grieve The Father, you sin against Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same time.
Also, I can only find one reference to gods person.
Hebrews 1:1-3 wrote:1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
It would imply that Jesus was the express image of Gods person, not his own person, or persons. The express image of Gods person (singular?).

User avatar
Pentecostal
Student
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:33 pm
Location: Glendale, Queens, New York

Post #12

Post by Pentecostal »

Vladd44:
quite frankly, the only way i can reconcile what you said initially, with what you typed in response is to consider modalism. Which i safely assume you do not adhere too.
I will be more than happy to answer your last post :lol: however, first, would you please explain what you mean by "modalism" :?: :?
DAV - USAF
For God & Country
To Serve, Defend & Protect
American, Republican, Conservative, HAWK

User avatar
Vladd44
Sage
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Climbing out of your Moms bedroom window.
Contact:

Post #13

Post by Vladd44 »

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10448a.htm wrote:II. MODALISTS

The Monarchians properly so-called (Modalists) exaggerated the oneness of the Father and the Son so as to make them but one Person; thus the distinctions in the Holy Trinity are energies or modes, not Persons: God the Father appears on earth as Son; hence it seemed to their opponents that Monarchians made the Father suffer and die. In the West they were called Patripassians, whereas in the East they are usually called Sabellians. The first to visit Rome was probably Praxeas, who went on to Carthage some time before 206-208; but he was apparently not in reality a heresiarch, and the arguments refuted by Tertullian somewhat later in his book "Adversus Praxean" are doubtless those of the Roman Monarchians (see PRAXEAS).
http://www.basictheology.com/definitions/Modalism/ wrote:Modalism offered a simple and enticing solution. Its proponents taught that God is a mono-personal being that can change “modes,” assuming the role of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at different times. Webster’s metaphysical definition for mode is “the form, or way of being, of something, as distinct from its substance.” Modalism teaches that God has one substance, but several “ways of being.” The common illustration that the Trinity is like the forms of water–ice, liquid, and steam–unfortunately is an exact representation of Modalism rather than Trinitarianism.

User avatar
Pentecostal
Student
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:33 pm
Location: Glendale, Queens, New York

Post #14

Post by Pentecostal »

Vladd44:
SO my question remains, there seems to be a variance in "penalty" for acting against jesus or the HS/HG. I fail to see how that’s possible in your godhead if I assume you are correct in saying.......

Quote: Pentecostal
Third, all the characteristics of the Godhead are attributed to each, again inseparable. You sin against or grieve The Father, you sin against Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same time.
Okay, let’s try again: :-k :-k

Definition of "The Trinity"
1. There is in the Divine Being but one indivisible essence (ousia, essentia).
2. In this one Divine Being there are three Persons or individual subsistence’s (hypostasis), Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
3. The whole undivided essence of God belongs equally to each of the three persons.
4. The subsistence and operation of the three persons in the divine Being is marked by a certain definite order.
5. There are certain personal attributes by which the three persons are distinguished.
6. The Church confesses the Trinity to be a mystery beyond the comprehension of man.
Louis Berkhof (1941) Systematic Theology. Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdman. p. 87-89

http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity.html
What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?
Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are, therefore we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different persons of the Godhead to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean it is not true.

Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word "Trinity" is not used in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God, the fact that there are 3 coexistent, co-eternal persons that make up God. Understand that this is NOT in anyway suggesting 3 Gods. The Trinity is 1 God made up of 3 persons. There is nothing wrong with using the term "Trinity". It is shorter to say the word "Trinity" than to say "3 coexistent, co-eternal persons making up 1 God." If this presents a problem to you, consider this: the word grandfather is not used in the Bible either. Yet, we know there were grandfathers in the Bible. Abraham was the grandfather of Jacob. So don't get hung up on the term itself. What should be of real importance is that the concept that is REPRESENTED by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. With the introduction out of the way, verses will be given in discussion of the Trinity.

1) There is one God: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5. 2) The Godhead consists of three Persons: Genesis 1:1; 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; 48:16; 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17; Matt 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14. In the passages in the Old Testament, a knowledge of Hebrew is helpful. In Genesis 1:1, the plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. That "Elohim" and "us" refer to more than two is WITHOUT question. In English, you only have two forms, singular and plural. In Hebrew, you have three forms: singular, dual, and plural. Dual is for two ONLY. In Hebrew, the dual form is used for things that come in pairs like eyes, ears, and hands. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun "us" are plural forms - definitely more than two - and must be referring to three or more (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

2) In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of 3 distinct persons in the Godhead.

3) The members of the Godhead are distinguished one from another in various passages: In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The "Lord" has a "Son" (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God" (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, John 14:16-17 is where Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit. This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all of the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Godhead - the Father.

4) Each member of the Godhead is God: The Father is God: John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2. The Son is God: John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20. The Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16 (The One who indwells is the Holy Spirit - Romans 8:9; John 14:16-17; Acts 2:1-4).

5) The subordination within the Godhead: Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship, and does not deny the deity of any person of the Godhead. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see: Luke 22:42; John 5:36; John 20:21; 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see: John 14:16; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7 and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The tasks of the individual members of the Godhead: The Father is the ultimate source or cause of: 1) the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); 2) divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); 3) salvation (John 3:16-17); and 4) Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father INITIATES all of these things. The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: 1) the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); 2) divine revelation (John 1:1; Matthew 11:27; John 16:12-15; Revelation 1:1); and 3) salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: 1) creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); 2) divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); 3) salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and 4) Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

AND:

http://snapshotsofgod.com/trinity.htm
Understanding the Holy Trinity

The Christian concept of the Trinity once seemed strange, perhaps even contrived, to me. How could something be three things that are one and one thing that is three? But the Trinity made sense to me once I came to believe in God, to recognize Him in Jesus Christ and to know the part of Him within me. My understanding of the Trinity, and belief in its truth, grew as I came to see that the universe itself reflects the three-in-one nature of the God who created it.

Matter
Matter has three states, solid, liquid and gaseous. Each element is a single element, but it takes on different forms or manifestations under different conditions.

Light
Any color of light can be formed from the three primary colors. White light is the equal combination of red, green and blue light, and is a manifestation of three colors in one.

Space
The space of our universe has three dimensions. You cannot define a point in space without using three dimensions, and yet that point is one.

Time
Time in our universe has three dimensions that are found in past, present and future, yet it is a single continuum and only exists in the present.

Forces
There are three physical forces known to control all interactions in matter: gravitational, electromagnetic and nuclear. The Unified Field Theory seeks to identify one set of laws that describes all these forces as different manifestations of one force.

Life
The physical design of the human body, and that of many other life forms, is based on a relationship known as the Divine Proportion, or Golden Section. This proportion is based on trisecting a line such that the ratio of the small piece to the large piece is the same as the ratio of the large piece to the entire line. It is also found by solving an equation with three terms, x3 - x2 - x1 = 0.

Nature of man
The nature of man is expressed as mind, body and spirit, analogous to, and in the image of, the triune nature of God. It's interesting to note that Genesis relates man being made by "us" in "our" image when referring to God, indicating the plurality in His nature.

Life on Earth
Life on Earth inhabits three domains, the sea, the land and the air.

Holy Trinity
Following the three-in-one nature that is found throughout creation, we find the three-in-one nature of the One God manifested in the Holy Trinity, with each Being revealing a different aspect of our God and Creator to us:
The Father, the part of God that is transcendent, infinite and beyond our understanding,
The Son, Jesus Christ, the part of God that is immanent and appeared to us in the way that we could best know Him, in human form. He was both "Son of God," an expression of God as contained in human form, and at the same time "Son of Man," the ultimate expression of who we can be in our most divine form.
The Holy Spirit, the part of God that lives in the heart and soul of each of us, acting as our Counselor for those who believe and listen to His voice within us.

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
Genesis 1:26

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?
1 Corinthians 6:19

Thus, as the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are three-in-one and one-in-three, they are inseparable and therefore what affects one affects all three.

As I previously stated:

Acts 5:3-4 “But Peter said Ananias, why has Satin filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after is was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

I would conclude that God (the Trinity) when inspiring the writing of the Scriptures felt the need to emphasize the importance of what the Holy Spirit's ministry was to us as individuals, and therefore warn against and the dire results of rejecting Him.
Also, I can only find one reference to gods person.
Hebrews 1:1-3 wrote:
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:


It would imply that Jesus was the express image of Gods person, not his own person, or persons. The express image of Gods person (singular?).
Please see above and let’s consider:

2 Corinthians 13:14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen.”

Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”

Red Letter - Matthew 5:34-35 “But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne: nor by the earth, for it is His footstool: not by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.”

Red Letter – John 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”

Throughout the Gospels, Jesus makes numerous mention of His relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit and their inseparable relationship with one another.
DAV - USAF
For God & Country
To Serve, Defend & Protect
American, Republican, Conservative, HAWK

User avatar
Vladd44
Sage
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Climbing out of your Moms bedroom window.
Contact:

Post #15

Post by Vladd44 »

I am aware of the doctrine of the trinity. And its convoluted attempt to reconcile many texts with different writers and agendas.

I didn't need it broken down for me.... but thanks....
Pentecostal wrote:Answer: The most difficult thing about the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain.


That would have been good enough, the rest was trivial for me.
Pentecostal wrote:Third, all the characteristics of the Godhead are attributed to each, again inseparable. You sin against or grieve The Father, you sin against Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same time

Vladd44 wrote:There is a distinct variance in penalty, and the concept of doing against one, while not the other is implicit. If sinning against one is sinning against both, how is this possible?.


You have not even attempted to address this inconsistency, unless I assume that its simply beyond our understanding. And if thats the case, there is no need to discuss that which cannot be answered.


ttyl.

User avatar
Pentecostal
Student
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:33 pm
Location: Glendale, Queens, New York

Post #16

Post by Pentecostal »

Vladd44:
I am aware of the doctrine of the trinity. And its convoluted attempt to reconcile many texts with different writers and agendas.
I am truly sorry that you find the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity convoluted, I for one have no difficulty understanding it.

You have not even attempted to address this inconsistency, unless I assume that its simply beyond our understanding. And if thats the case, there is no need to discuss that which cannot be answered.

Let me attempt this again:

The "Unpardonable Sin" as it is commonly know, in Matthew 12:31-32 is Jesus condemning the Pharisees statement in Matthew 12:24 where they said that Jesus performed His miracles through the power of Beelzebub or Satin.

This means that God the Father sent God the Son into the world, and the miracles performed by God the Son was through the power of God the Holy Spirit who was Satin's emissary using Satin's power, and therefore Jesus was Satin's son.

Again, I conclude, IMHO, in that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit as stated in the Scriptures are one in three - three in one and inseparable - that to sin against one is to sin against all three / one.
DAV - USAF
For God & Country
To Serve, Defend & Protect
American, Republican, Conservative, HAWK

User avatar
Vladd44
Sage
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:58 am
Location: Climbing out of your Moms bedroom window.
Contact:

Post #17

Post by Vladd44 »

Pentecostal wrote:I am truly sorry that you find the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity convoluted, I for one have no difficulty understanding it.

Pentecostal wrote:6. The Church confesses the Trinity to be a mystery beyond the comprehension of man.

Pentecostal wrote:Answer: The most difficult thing about the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain.


Now I don't know whether I should ask you to explain anything. But I will stick with my original issue. However I will try to break it down a bit.

If "sinning against god" = "sinning against jesus"
if "sinning against jesus" = "sinning against the holy ghost"
if sinning against god" = "sinning against the holy ghost"
Pentecostal wrote:Third, all the characteristics of the Godhead are attributed to each, again inseparable. You sin against or grieve The Father, you sin against Jesus and the Holy Spirit at the same time.


Then.......

Penalty for sinning against god/jesus/holy ghost would be the same. If there were variations in punishment, whichever was greater would automatically apply. BC sinning against the "son of man" would be sinning against the Holy Ghost too. Incurring the stiffer penalty by default.

Sinning against jesus would incur the "more severe holy ghost penalty" bc its not possible to sin against one of them. So i ask again, what does this mean?
Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

User avatar
Pentecostal
Student
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:33 pm
Location: Glendale, Queens, New York

Post #18

Post by Pentecostal »

Vladd44:

With all due respect to you, I personally feel that you major in the minors and minor in the majors. Additionally, you seem to feel that the Holy Scriptures are some sort of a fairy-tale to be taken lightly, which could possibly be why you fail to understand it.

If you can agree as the Scriptures tell us over and over again, that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one in three and three in one, with different personalities yet the same, and are inseparable, then why is this concept so hard for you to understand???

Okay, let’s try again.. As I mentioned before:

The "Unpardonable Sin" as it is commonly know, in Matthew 12:31-32 is Jesus condemning the Pharisees statement in Matthew 12:24 where they said that Jesus performed His miracles through the power of Beelzebub or Satin.

This simply means that the Pharisees were telling the people (who they RULED over) that Jesus was Satin's son (emissary) and all His miracles were accomplished through the power given to Him by Satin, and that Jesus did not come from the Father, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not Jehovah, not Yahweh, not “I Am” as stated in Exodus 3:14.

Therefore, I must conclude that the following Scripture pertains to your misunderstanding of God’s word.

1 Corinthians 2:13-16 “These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.”
DAV - USAF
For God & Country
To Serve, Defend & Protect
American, Republican, Conservative, HAWK

adlemi
Apprentice
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:33 pm

Post #19

Post by adlemi »

Corvus wrote:Thanks, Overcomer. It certainly took a long time for someone to respond, but I think that is because the focus of Christianity is Christ, not the Holy Spirit.

I think what is perplexing to me is the Holy Spirit's purpose in being a part of the Godhead. Before Christ came, God was just God, though sometimes he enlisted the help of angels. Christ was God born on earth to sacrifice himself for mankind's sins. Where God is entirely spiritual, Christ was material. That God needs another functionary or extension of Himself is just perplexing to me, because I don't see why the things you assure me the Holy Spirit can do can't be carried out by angels or by God's Himself.

I would like to know; is the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Old Testament?
The Holy Spirit is only one among the created Spirit beings of God. The purpose by which the Holy Spirit is created is to be God's testimony to men - to come to and be poured in full and without measure to all the believers for them to physically feel the reality of the Lord God Jesus Christ.

In the whole book of the Old TEstamanent, there is only One Lord God the Almighty, the Lord God or the LOrd. Jehovah to Moses and JESUS who dwelt in His fullness to the body born of Mary.

User avatar
KnowJah
Student
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:23 am
Location: California

Re: What is the Holy Spirit?

Post #20

Post by KnowJah »

Corvus wrote:I would like to know what the Holy Spirit is and what is its function. It's fairly clear what Jesus does and what purpose he fulfills, yet the Holy Spirit is something I only know of as a vague thing that descends on people, without a personality or nature to speak of.
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word most frequently used for "spirit" is ru'ach, meaning "breath; wind; spirit." In the Greek Scriptures, the word is pneu'ma, having a similar meaning.

The Holy Spirit is not God! It is God's active force.

Acts 2:2-3 mentions the holy spirit: Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them.

Bible prophecy was recorded when men of God were "borne along by holy spirit [Greek, from pneu'ma]." (2 Peter 1:20, 21) In this way the Bible was "inspired of God," the Greek word for which is The·o'pneu·stos, meaning "God-breathed." (2 Timothy 3:16)

Here's some quotes:


"On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power." —A Catholic Dictionary

The Catholic Encyclopedia: "Nowhere in the Old Testament do we find any clear indication of a Third Person."

Catholic theologian Fortman: "The Jews never regarded the spirit as a person; nor is there any solid evidence that any Old Testament writer held this view. The Holy Spirit is usually presented in the Synoptics [Gospels] and in Acts as a divine force or power."


The New Catholic Encyclopedia: "The O[ld] T[estament] clearly does not envisage God's spirit as a person . . . God's spirit is simply God's power. If it is sometimes represented as being distinct from God, it is because the breath of Yahweh acts exteriorly." It also says: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God."

Post Reply