Reducing the number of abortions

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mrmufin
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Reducing the number of abortions

Post #1

Post by mrmufin »

Otseng has mentioned this topic a few times, and I think it's worthy of discussion:

How can the number of abortions be lowered?

Remember, folks: this forum is for discussion toward a common objective, not for debate on the issue of abortion...

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mrmufin
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Post #51

Post by steen »

I can't even believe I missed this tread.



Prochoice have no desire to see more abortions. They are surgical procedures and we no more like abortions than we like to see people's appendix taken out. And we want both to be legal and accessible per the person's need.

therefore we can not accept legal restrictions. But we can work on lowering the demand for abortions.

FIRST: prevent pregnancies, thus have fewer unwanted pregnancies and abortions.
(1) Better sex-ed. Earlier, more accurate, more specific and all-encompassing, less susceptible to parents wanting to lie to their kids under the DELUSION that kids don't have sex till they turn 30. An educated person is much better at making educated, wise choices
(2) More. better, more accessible, cheaper (how about free?) Contraceptive options, going all the way to the Morning-After Pill. The fundie objection to birth control is one of the biggest reasons for abortions.


SECONDLY, once pregnant women need better support.
(1) reverse "welfare reform" which is nothing but an attempt by the rich to not have to pay for the less fortunate. Better support of pregnant women, prolifers putting their wallet where their mouth is. Get rid of the politicians who restrict help to women going through pregnancy. Help the women in areas of finances, education continuance, employment security.
(2) More support to the women who have given birth. Job security, respite care, child care, and better coverage for the issues of poverty, such as housing, food stamps, health insurance and such.


With these programs and plans in place, I'll bet we can lower the abortion rate to less than half, possibly less than 1/4th almost immediately.

The main obstacle to this are the prolifers and the conservatives. Their opposition to the above has done more to keep abortion rates up than anything else has. THEY are responsible for the lack of progress in bringing down the number of abortions because of their resistance to the above points.

Any prolifers here who endorse all of the above suggestions and thus is serious about reducing the number of abortions, or are they dragging feet on some of this because their goal deals with controlling women rather than fewer abortions?
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melikio
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Teach

Post #52

Post by melikio »

Teach children EARLY, the truths about human sexuality.

Then when the societal RESPONSIBILITY to handle sexuality constructively is placed upon them, they won't go into the same overload many do.

So many wrong ideas about sex, what it is or isn't, causes many to give up on doing something good/right with their sexuality. So many people are told it's "bad", they do things anyway and HIDE it... never really being open to better concepts of what sex really means. They are so busy sneaking in some pleasure, that they never consider that it's ok to wait or not have sex at all (if that's their actual inclination).

Really, some things that could be taught are these:

1. Respect yourself and your body. It can lead to both pleasure and pain, for yourself and others. Sex is not a toy, even if it feels like one (sometimes); it can burn as well as caress one's soul.

2. Feeling sexual, isn't the same as feeling "love". (It amazes me, the number of people I've seen who really don't know the difference well-enough.)

The key is to teach children about sex, with emphasis upon responsibility for what they do with their bodies. Of course the "ideal" thing is for people to be celebate or married (committed), but that isn't always the choice people select. Responsibility and concern for others will still go a LONG way toward giving young people something to consider, besides their next "orgasm".

Merely telling people that sex outside of marriage is "bad", isn't enough to address the range of issues represented; the actual and possible pitfalls of sexual activity need to be taught clearly, along with the meaning of beneficial relationships. And mountains of guilt won't do, not nearly as well as teaching people to care for one another; unless someone is having sex all alone, the possibility of consequences such as disease and/or unwanted pregnancy are real issues they may likely face.

Bottom line, people need to be taught the responsibility that comes with human sexuality; pleasure does have a price attached to it, and people need to learn that early in life.

Kids DO learn fairly early about sex, but we have to ask: "What is it they have actually learned, and in what way/s did they learn?"

Love (selflessness and a charitable focus upon the well-being of others) is what needs to be instilled overall. If people really grow up thinking this is all about #1, then abortion and the irresponsible attitudes associated with certain behaviors will appear to be the norm.

And all of this is MUCH easier said, than done.

-Mel-
Last edited by melikio on Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

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keltzkroz
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Post #53

Post by keltzkroz »

Also, I would like to add that it is very important to teach children about responsibility early on, starting with putting away their toys after play, cleaning up their room, etc. Hopefully, their sense of responsibility will stick with them for the rest of their lives.

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Housekeeping

Post #54

Post by melikio »

keltzkroz wrote:Also, I would like to add that it is very important to teach children about responsibility early on, starting with putting away their toys after play, cleaning up their room, etc. Hopefully, their sense of responsibility will stick with them for the rest of their lives.
LOL. :)

I wish that a child would/could learn "sexual" responsibility through housekeeping skills, but that isn't likely.

Since I don't have kids, I just rewind to when I was a child; most of us were a lot more focused on sexual issues, than how our rooms were arranged. Funny thing is, I did clean my room/home on cue... with sex on my mind. (I had a cleaner room to be "horny" in.) 8)

I'd say that it would have been more helpful IF my parents had talked about it with me. Most people just throw out the "DON'T DO's" to their kids (typically for religious reasons), INSTEAD of instructing the child to make good/better choices about how, when or if they should become sexually involved.

It seems people live in kind of a dream-world, where they just hope that their kids learn the right things. Well, I can almost guarantee that as uncomfortable as teaching kids about "sensuality" may be, it is far better than them learning it from their "peers" (or the entertainment industry). Why? Mainly because parents or adults close to the child can instill a reasonable sense of responsibility for others (conscience) where human sexuality is concerned (at least most parents are capable, even if they are reluctant to do so).

I think it's better overall to have kids wait, and wait and wait... to get involved sexually with anyone or anything, but they still need knowledge and a sense of morality which tells them the same. As it is, many kids start off just thinking sex is bad or completely taboo etc.; based upon my experiences and observaton of other people, I think they need more than "good" and "bad" in their moral vocabularies. That is, the grey-areas are going to have to be navigated by these kids, and many have such terrible skills socially/sexually, that they could end up making the worst possible series of bad choices imaginable; ABORTION is just ONE such "end-result".

Some insist upon a moral view of human sexuality for their kids, which they themselves never abided themselves; they found it to be unrealistic, even if it did clearly define their sense of right and wrong. And who is it that cannot understand (whether parent or not) that they want what is better for their children?

Of course the majority of people want their children to do better than THEY did, but it is unfortunate that a more pragmatic and compassionate view of human sexuality is often pushed to the sidelines by excessively puritanical and/or even hedonistic moral views. Kids need better than that period.

Understanding that abortion is a symptom of a larger human problem than sex itself, might be a start toward reducing the numbers of people who would even want them.

-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

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keltzkroz
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Post #55

Post by keltzkroz »

I think you misunderstood me because I did not elaborate. I'm looking at the overall conduct of people (not just abortions), that people should be responsible for their actions and for each other, like global warming, abortion, war, poverty, crime, etc. I don't think there is a single switch that we can simply turn on and off and see how it affects the world on matters like global warming and abortion. This is essentially what you mentioned:
Understanding that abortion is a symptom of a larger human problem than sex itself, might be a start toward reducing the numbers of people who would even want them.
I would have to say that the lack of a sense of responsiblity contributes to that symptom. Being a responsible person (for wanted and unwanted consequences of our actions) and raising our children to be responsible themselves is the least we can do, something which is not very common these days. Teaching children to be responsible with small things early on helps make it an important part of their personality and everyday life, eventually moving on to bigger and bigger responsibilities.

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Agreed.

Post #56

Post by melikio »

Teaching children to be responsible with small things early on helps make it an important part of their personality and everyday life, eventually moving on to bigger and bigger responsibilities.
I agree whole-heartedly!

What you say is true indeed!

Despite the fact that my parents didn't end up with a "straight" son, doesn't mean that they raised some self-consumed hedonist either. God knows I didn't ask for or choose to be as "human" as I am; even so, the "input" of loving authority figures certainly modified or mitigated my "moral" viewpoints.

I spent a lot of human energy trying to be "straight", but certainly a LOT MORE considering and doing what was best for others; it's never about CONTROLLING others, as many religious people tend to get into.

Making some girl pregnant and having no intention of supporting a child, or spreading diseases at will were not "options" to me. I admit that I have certainly found pleasure in sexual expression, but have always considered the possible consequences of my activities; that modified my behavior automatically. And I'm not sorry that my parents taught me the concept of responsibility (to God and others), especially in the areas concerning human sexuality. I knew sex wasn't something to be treated as a "toy", thanks to them. Actually, it amazed me how casual some were about making babies, until I realized that most people don't consider the "responsibility" of doing so.

Religion taught me more about certain reasons for right/wrong, and most importantly the value of resposibility to/for others. Along with certain freedoms related to actions, comes the responsibility or caring that one should also regard and exude. It isn't my place as a human being to CHANGE this world, but I believe that it is my place to make the best of what I have to offer as a human being. My parents had a large part in making me aware of those reasonable and noble concerns.

-Mel-
"It is better to BE more like Jesus and assume to speak less for God." -MA-

sue

Post #57

Post by sue »

This post is USA-centric, my apologies to our friends from other countries. The statistics cited are all from the Guttmacher Institute website.
Eight percent of women having abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated.
Most people who have abortions know about birth control.
On average, women give four reasons for choosing abortion. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.
People are actually taking the responsibility of raising a child very seriously - seriously enough to want to opt out of that responsibility. They opt out because they can't afford a child, don't have access to decent childcare while they're at work/school/taking care of dependents, or don't have a stable relationship with a spouse or partner.
Fifty-two percent of U.S. women obtaining abortions are younger than 25: Women aged 20–24 obtain 33% of all abortions, and teenagers obtain 19%.

Black women are almost four times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are 2.5 times as likely.

Forty-three percent of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% identify themselves as Catholic.

Two-thirds of all abortions are among never-married women.

Over 60% of abortions are among women who have had one or more children.

The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570 for a single woman with no children) is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level (44 vs. 10 abortions per 1,000 women).
Unmarried poor minorities are less likely to be able to provide a stable life for a child. Unlike drugs, cable TV, movies, and concerts, sex is free entertainment. People who are bored and unemployed have more time to think about sex.

The quality of education in largely Hispanic or Black neighborhoods lags behind that of predominantly white neighborhoods, so they are less likely to find well-paying jobs. By 2050, whites will be a minority in the United States. If we would like the United States to succeed, we need to take a look at how we can help Blacks/Hispanics to succeed.

My proposals would be the following:
  • * Get rid of the locally-funded education system that's currently in place so that education doesn't depend on location. Centralize education funding.

    * Provide decent, free, readily available childcare. Whether this is provided by a church, the government, or the employer really doesn't matter much, as long as it's available.

    * It seems that many people are not learning how to have a stable relationship. Find a way to educate them.

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Post #58

Post by Ronin »

I don't know what the number on repeat abortions are. If they are high,which I have a feeling they are. I suggest that we limit how many a person can have. I think the worst thing about abortion is the people who use it as the only form of birth control.
after a certain number,how about sterilization. For both the man and the woman. It takes two to tango!!!!

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Post #59

Post by Buckeye »

I don't understand what the problem with abortion is. Why would I want to compel someone to give birth to a child that they obviously don't want. Common sense tells me that the child will be neglected at best, just look around, this world is full of miscreant juveniles from uncaring parents that were too stupid to not get pregnant in the first place.

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Post #60

Post by Goat »

Buckeye wrote:I don't understand what the problem with abortion is. Why would I want to compel someone to give birth to a child that they obviously don't want. Common sense tells me that the child will be neglected at best, just look around, this world is full of miscreant juveniles from uncaring parents that were too stupid to not get pregnant in the first place.
Although the medical risk of an abortion is low in proper situations, and aside from the ethics of it, the medical risk of an abortion is not zero.

It is far far better to prevent an unwanted pregnancy than have to face the choice of an abortion.

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